PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:

Ian R
Welcome back to Inspector Toolbelt Talk everyone, and today we have a special guest on who actually reached out to me and I’m super stoked to have him on, Rob Claus, you pronounce Claus like house, he tells me.

Rob Claus
Yes.

Ian R
How are you, Rob?

Rob Claus
I’m good. Ian, how are you?

Ian R
I’m doing fantastic. And you’re coming to us from sunny Fort Lauderdale, Florida, right?

Rob Claus
Today I am. I’m down here in Fort Lauderdale teaching the three day Introduction to Commercial Inspections class to 30 new commercial inspectors.

Ian R
That’s awesome. I imagine you’ve traveled quite a bit across the US and Canada.

Rob Claus
We do. This is our travel season. I’ve got nine different sessions we’re going to do between now and June and probably add a couple more.

Ian R
And are these listed on your website? Because as we get into this podcast, I’m sure people are gonna want to know.

Rob Claus
Thank you. Absolutely. Ccpia.org is our website, there’s a drop down right there in the middle for education. That’s where you can find our whole calendar.

Ian R
Perfect. And from what I’m told by Dillon Winiecki who was a guest on our show a few weeks back, you’re an amazing instructor. He speaks very highly of you. So I think I might pop into one of your classes at some point.

Rob Claus
Well, I know I’m gonna be on upstate Pennsylvania in a few weeks, that might be a good location for you to head to the House of Horrors Number Three in Bloomsburg.

Ian R
Oh, yeah, you know, I’ve been meaning to, I’ve been meaning to get there too. Because it’s not that far. It’s probably, probably four hours south of me. It’s not bad. Yeah, it’s not too, too bad. I’m upstate New York. But today we’re going to have Rob talk to us about commercial inspections again. And we had a podcast on this before because I really want to emphasize to our audience how awesome a service this is to add to our repertoire. Dillon talked about the home inspector angle of transitioning into it, how to market it and some of those things. And Rob is going to help us today with some of the, some of the logistics and the nitty gritty, and, you know, rubber hitting the road kind of stuff about doing commercial inspections. But Rob, can you tell us a little bit about your background? You’re the director of education for CCPIA. So that’s a big deal. But what’s your background?

Rob Claus
That’s a long way. I’d love to, I’m old as mud. I was the first inspector in the world, I was the one who went into the cave and came out and I didn’t get eaten by the cave bear. So it must have been a safe cave. No, I’ve actually been inspecting since 1988. And I’ve done just about 15,000 inspections. I’ve worked for some wonderful companies through the years, franchisors, national firms, owned a couple of companies on my own. And, but my niche really was working with big teams and growing super successful, super large companies. And my last firm I was with, fantastic firm, I helped them start the company, was their first employee. And I went to them in 2016 and said, I hate people. And the specific people I didn’t like were homeowners and homebuyers and I needed a new, I needed a new jazz in my life. I had a new tune in my head. And I said I’d really like to start doing commercial. So, Ian, they gave me a month, and in a month I designed a training program, a marketing program and a reporting program that we can implement. And on July 1, 2016, I hung up my home inspector hat, set it over there, put my commercial hat on, and never looked back. In the course of six short years we did about 2500 to 3000 commercial inspections, and just really, really took it off. And somewhere, and I’ve been working with the CCPIA, I know you’re, we’ll get into it. But I found that the standards of practice called the ComSOP was so approachable and so fairly written for the industry, that in 2016 it was just a natural thing to adapt. Shortly after adapting it, word got out, I started doing contract training for them. And for those who don’t know the CCPIA, I know your previous podcast talked about it. It was founded as a sister organization InterNACHI. So Nick Gromicko, and his team, and especially Maggie Aey helped found this. And I was always doing contract training and in 2022 they said hey, you want to do this for real? And so I got to retire entirely from the field and moved my family across the country. And now this is all we, this is all I do, as you say I’m, I’m training all the time, I’m writing all the time, we’re creating online courses that we hope to be the cornerstone of what commercial inspections should be and will be in the future.

Ian R
That’s fantastic. I’m anticipating this being a fun podcast. I already like you, Rob. I like how you started out with, I don’t like people. Tell me how you really feel. But you know, there’s, there’s some real, there’s some real substance to that, though, because sometimes the hardest part of our business is the people. And sometimes the best part is the people too. But you know, sometimes it’s like for the 30th time that week that you’re explaining that a two by four is not exactly two by four. Sometimes you’re like, okay, I could use a break. So if anything, a commercial inspection will give us a break. I think Dillon mentioned that too, he was like, at least mix it up.

Rob Claus
Well, when you think about it, Ian, for all the followers, and I love your podcasts, for all your followers, and what and I don’t know what, I’m old. So listeners or subscribers, or whatever our term we’re supposed to use is, if you’ve done home inspections long enough, you’re gonna get a phone call on Christmas Eve. And it’s going to be somebody saying, my sink is dripping. If you would have told me my sink was dripping, I wouldn’t have bought the house. And, and I get it, I get the passion, I get the fact that you’re raising children. You’re laying your head on a pillow. You’re doing all these things in your dwelling. And you’ve got a very big financial vested interest in it. But on commercial properties, it’s a business asset. They don’t call and complain. You do your job. And you produce a report that’s accurate, competent, and comprehensive. Then they go yeah, well, people make mistakes, I get it. As long as it’s a typical one, that drippy faucet, I just gotta have maintenance fix it. And that’s where I say, when I say I hate people, I love people, anybody that knows me knows that, that I love teaching. I love standing in front. I love doing inspections. And that’s the one thing I do miss taking this new position. But the dealing with the day to day of the residential side really takes a toll on you after 33 years.

Ian R
Yeah. And I think we, I think all of us understood when you said that what you meant.

Rob Claus
Yeah.

Ian R
Because we’re all like, we hear ya brother.

Rob Claus
Testify.

Ian R
Yeah, exactly. So I think I think you answered a lot of my first question to you is, why do you think commercial inspections are a great industry for us to go into? I mean, there’s the obvious, there’s, ironically, it’s a lot less stress, you’re doing a $30,000 hotel inspection, you’re like, this is way less stress than doing two home inspections. You know?

Rob Claus
Ssshhh. You got to keep that quiet.

Ian R
You don’t want anybody to know.

Rob Claus
We can’t go public with something like that, Ian. No, you’re absolutely right. It’s a whole different subset. It’s a little tougher to find the work. But it’s such a logical progression. I tell people this, and I have family that are engineers, and for the history of commercial purchasing. Engineers have dominated the space.

Ian R
Yeah, exactly.

Rob Claus
And I don’t know that an engineer understands the concept of the community of the systems it takes to comprise the building.

Ian R
Exactly.

Rob Claus
That the roof has a direct correlation to how the electric is, What? How? They’re used to, they’re used to bringing in experts when a building inspector like us has sharpened our spears knowing the entire way every system talks to themselves. And by us just having a procedure around of that, there’s nobody more qualified than a home inspector, to transfer into being a commercial property inspector.

Ian R
I 100% agree. And we’ve talked about this before on the show. Engineers are problem solvers, problem fixers, and they deal conceptually with things on paper, where as a matter of fact, I was having a conversation with a, with a guy who was in the building trades, and he was trying to convince me that some type of attic ventilation works. And I’m like, yes, it works on paper with your calculations. I have failed hundreds of houses with this ventilation system. And he could prove, tried to prove to me all day, but he didn’t understand that okay, well, there’s a variable of what if you have two teenagers taking a shower and, you know, we had this whole conversation, he goes, well those are new calculations. I’m like, exactly. That’s it. Life isn’t a calculation. The building isn’t the calculation. It’s a matter of having that experience of saying this is what the building is going to do. And engineers very rarely have that. Because they’re usually specialized to, like, not many are a full civil engineer with an expertise in all fields. Most of them are very specialized, whereas we were general practitioners. So I agree with you wholeheartedly there, Rob.

Rob Claus
Yeah, the other thing that’s so logical is residential inspections have so much, timber towards, and lean towards what the economy’s doing. Yeah, the interest rates are doing this, then houses are doing this. And it’s so dependent, it can be dependent on, is it an election year, can depend on, is it a this, is it a that, what’s going on, or cyclically. I came from Chicago. And when it got to be November, residential inspections died, and they did not pick back up until the third week of January. Then they go heavy, then they tip, and then they go up again. And then there was vacation season. But in commercial, if the home inspections have a giant sine curve, commercial has a little porpoise. And they can bridge the gap. And you can actually create a portfolio business where you’ve got this peaking here and this peaking there and be able to be diversified and not have that drastic income swing that home inspectors find.

Ian R
Yeah, the feast or famine problem. Yeah.

Rob Claus
Yeah.

Ian R
That doesn’t exist as much in commercial. Yeah, I totally agree.

Rob Claus
It does.

Ian R
It does. But not, but not to the extent that, in residential.

Rob Claus
No, and I think our bigger, our bigger blessing and issue is I just noticed today on Facebook, that it’s InterNACHI’s 30th birthday.

Ian R
Oh, wow.

Rob Claus
And so that’ll time exactly what day today is. I’m not supposed, we’re not supposed to put up a calendar. But in 10 years from now, when somebody resurrects this and they’ll go, no, you’re wrong. It’s the 40th. But this industry that we’re in is only 50 years young. In ’88, we were still writing reports on yellow legal paper with bullets.

Ian R
Hey, I know home inspectors that still do that, Rob.

Rob Claus
We used to lament in our office all the time of only if, because you know, that’s one of the, only if I could we could go back to that we wouldn’t get in trouble. So for this dominance with the engineers and dominance in that, in that conversation, we had commercial inspections are not a name that our buyers understand. So to our blessing, we’re in a stage of an industry. And this what I tell all the students that I talk to, we can call dibs, we can go, this is how it’s supposed to be done. And now everybody that follows us for the next decades, does it exactly like we did, I kind of feel pretty tickled about being, I never was called the forefather before, but it’s kind of what we’re doing right now.

Ian R
Yeah, I agree with you there too, because this is kind of like home inspections in the late 90s. Like, who’s the home inspector? We are. And you call dibs on the industry in a couple of ways. You call it like you just said, like you have to do it this way. We’re going to set the standard. But also, there are so few commercial inspectors in the industry relatively right now that, you know it, basically it’s free market. It’s open. If you get the gumption to go in there and get it, there’s more commercial market available than there is residential market available.

Rob Claus
Yeah, I’ve had conversations with industry leaders, some of the leaders have been on your podcast in the past and, and we’ve had little contests amongst each other of, of does this work or doesn’t this work? And I’ll tell my students, and I’ll tell our members when I’m meeting with, meeting them one on one. You live in a town, you probably live in a house or a dwelling somewhere. And I got a nickel says, you know somebody that works somewhere, you know, somebody that owns a business, you’ve probably driven down the road and saw a business, whether of any type, all of those are viable customers and viable inspection opportunities, regardless of population.

Ian R
Yeah, I think that’s one of the biggest arguments that I hear home inspectors make. Well, I live in a rural area, or even like my area, I live near Albany, New York. It’s a very small city, under 100,000 they think still, and people are like, oh, it’s such a small city. If I lived in New York or if I lived in Dallas, it’s like okay, there’s a million commercial buildings within an hour driving radius here. Just get on your horse and ride.

Rob Claus
Or more. And I know you’re gonna ask the question, so I might as well throw it out there right now without you asking.

Ian R
Awesome.

Rob Claus
Commercial inspections do not have a boundary.

Ian R
Yeah.

Rob Claus
There’s only two states right now that have any type of conversation to regulation. So if you’re in upstate New York in gorgeous Albany, New York, and you want to go to Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, Connecticut, New Hampshire, get a gas card, put new tires on your truck, and go.

Ian R
And that was going to be one of my questions. And I’m really glad you’re bringing it up, because that’s a question that’s asked a lot. So I live on the border of like three different states. And that’s a question that comes up. Can I go work there? And your answer is basically, yes. What are the two states that are talking about regulation?

Rob Claus
South Carolina specifically has a conversation in their statutes that says you must be a general contractor.

Ian R
Okay, that’s easy enough to do.

Rob Claus
You must have a contractor’s license.

Ian R
Go get a contractor’s license. Yeah.

Rob Claus
North Carolina, I had a conversation with their licensing board recently. And they said, well, we don’t regulate commercial inspections. But, you have to have a home inspectors license to do it.

Ian R
That’s easy enough.

Rob Claus
It’s pretty simple. But so, so if I was in gorgeous Georgia, up in Savannah, I probably wouldn’t go to South Carolina unless I had a contractor’s license, but I can, you know, so. So when I talked to colleagues and students and members and, and people, people listening to your podcast, if you want to travel border to border, I did that in Illinois. I did Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Iowa, almost weekly.

Ian R
Nice. Well, and I guess that’s also part of the, part of the good thing and what I’ve heard some home inspectors say is the bad thing. Some home inspectors are like, I don’t want to travel, and some inspectors are like cool, travel sounds nice. But the nice thing is, you know, you have, so you have a $40,000 inspection and takes you four days, grab your family, and if you’re inspecting a hotel or some commercial building, there’s likely infrastructure around, let them go to the zoo, you come home at night, you’re with your guys all day working. Make it a little family trip.

Rob Claus
I’m old enough to remember holidomes. Yeah, that was always the, that was always our big winter vacation as a family. We’re gonna go for the weekend, do a holidome, have a roll of quarters, have a good time. Yeah, exactly. You pack your family up or, or however you want to do it. Because the other nice thing about this, if you really read the standards of practice, the ComSOP expands on, it’s, it’s a great career for the older inspector, because our scope is largely visual. So that wear and tear on the body that a home requires is not necessarily the wear and tear on the body, a commercial needs. Our biggest tool that we use is what’s behind my eyes and between my ears.

Ian R
Yeah.

Rob Claus
And as long as that’s sharp, then the rest of the inspection can be done. Or you can do management inspections where you bring in specialty consultants, and they do all the work and I just become the manager and assembler for that $40,000 fee. I can handle that in a week.

Ian R
Yeah. And that’s the thing, even these big inspections. Worst case scenario, in my experience, is a week. Every once in awhile, you get the guy that gets a blown up $130,000 job and you’re there all month, you can turn those down. But worst case scenario, you’re gone for four days, you know, that’s my experience.

Rob Claus
My largest job, my largest job took six months.

Ian R
Oh geez. Wow.

Rob Claus
It was, it was a well over a million square foot shopping center. And our fee was almost a quarter million dollars.

Ian R
Oh, wow.

Rob Claus
But, and we set up a field office in the shopping center. Because imagine, we’ve got elevator tax, escalators, and most of these contractors worked for us for over a month at a time. And all I did was sit there with a set of plans and scratch off units that’d been inspected. Pretty simple job. But, but it’s, those are very few and far between.

Ian R
Yeah, exactly. And we can turn those bigger ones down. But you never know, by the time we get through a few, we might like them. I do have a couple of questions, though. Because you talk about having a team. And I think one of the biggest issues, I don’t want to say issue, one of the biggest questions that a lot of guys have, and I’ve struggled with this over the year in my, years of my commercial inspections, is the balance between people that work for you regularly versus contractors. Now, in your opinion, if you’re just a regular home inspector, maybe a guy or two, maybe not, maybe your solo. What would you keep in house, starting out, versus hiring out?

Rob Claus
There’s, one of my favorite poems, and I promise you, I’m not going to recite it, is called the Comfort Zone. And anybody that is listening or subscribing to this podcast, it’s an, it’s written by anonymous, and it’s downloaded, called the Comfort Zone. And it talks about, I sit inside that comfort zone and do not dare to leave. And any way, everybody listening, and everybody watching is going to have a comfort zone. Me myself, I rarely ever brought a specialty consultant. And I had a team of five commercial inspectors that are on my team, and there was 20 residential inspectors on the other side of our operation, so we rarely ever need to leave our talent pool. Now, what’s, what’s wonderful about this, for all those that are listening, how difficult or mentally painful it is to have multiple inspectors working for you, when you think of the government, and taxes and the rules, because we all know, and I’m not gonna report, repeat the IRS tax code. But we all know that as soon as you give somebody a shirt, tell them where to go, tell them what time to be there, tell them, tell them how much they get paid, they’re an employee.

Ian R
Exactly.

Rob Claus
Well, here’s what’s wonderful. And this is, this is what I wish everybody could wrap their arms around. Asking for help can be a 1099 event. So, Ian, I could be doing a job in upstate New York, I got called, and I can go pick up my rolodex, I’ll call you and say, hey, do you want to help me, and I could, at any one time, it’s my job, I can bring 15 1099 friends to do a one off or two off or a 10 off with me anytime. So it’s so much easier being bigger than yourself. But we have a process when you do commercial inspections. And it’s in between, it’s called my research process. And that’s where I pick up the building, take a look at it, see what systems are present, and just see if they fit my comfort zone, or go beyond my comfort zone. I’ll give you a great example. If I look at a building, and I see it’s got a cooling tower and a chiller. I will go to my client and say, cooling towers and chillers are beyond my standard inspection. I can certainly visually look at them. But if you want a more diagnostic view, I would love to bring a specialty consultant with me, that fee is going to be blank. Because for all those that have never done a commercial inspection, only doing residential, you’re kind of put in a box of, this is what an inspection is. And I don’t say that derogatory, but that’s what it is. And commercial, every inspection’s one off, every inspection involves a written agreement. But there’s also an agreed proposal that sets the stage for exactly what’s gonna happen. I am bringing you an electrician to give you a thorough inventory and analysis. I am not, because it’s really up to what the client wants to spend above and beyond what our standard scope is.

Ian R
So that’s important for us to remember because a lot of times we’ll see in forums and inspectors will ask things like, what’s a commercial inspection per square foot? What would you guys charge for this building? And I mean, getting into how do you bid a job is very complex. How I personally would do it is I would, I would start off by saying, okay, what’s the square footage and type of building? So it’s 10,000 square foot, I’m thinking in my head, this is a silly way to think but I’m like, oh, right, you know, 10,000 square foot, if you do a 2000 square foot house times five, then I do that triplicate or quadruple, because it’s a commercial building. And I say, okay, what else in here do they want or not want? What experts am I going to bring in? And I kind of go down the line that way. And it just makes sense in my brain, I’m sure you have a much better formula than that.

Rob Claus
We have resources for our members. And a bunch of calculators, bunch of tip sheets, and we even have a course called fees and proposals.

Ian R
Nce.

Rob Claus
And when you’re doing fees, I think there’s four basic, four basic types of fees. There’s a percentage of sale model. There’s a flat fee model. There is a cost per square foot model. And then there’s a hybrid which is cost per square foot per hour model.

Ian R
Yeah.

Rob Claus
A lot of these are determined, you know, I’ll give you a great example. And I’m not gonna say brands, I promise.

Ian R
Okay.

Rob Claus
There’s a house at the end of your street that got converted to a dental office. We all know what it’s going to take us to inspect that property. Bingo, bango, if you’re listening to this, you’re a great inspector, because although you know that, but that’s no longer a house, it’s a commercial building, you’ve got life safety, we’ve got, we’ve got all kinds of other things. And there’s a different factor. So where you might be 475 as a house, you might be 875, or 1275 as a commercial building, I’m not necessarily a 4x guy or 3x guy. I was blessed enough, Ian, I worked for a company that wanted me to make a profit.

Ian R
Nice.

Rob Claus
But they didn’t want me to be hoggy about it.

Ian R
Right.

Rob Claus
The old, the old line, probably saying it wrong, but pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. And so why I never go to comments, comments in forums is, I might be $2,700 for one, for this job, and somebody else might be $5,700. My marketing and my sales and my efforts where I’m profitable $2,700 for this morning. And my goal is I want people to see the work, value the work, and say, boy, I’d like to have some more of that. Can you do one for me next week?

Ian R
Right.

Rob Claus
Versus at double that, maybe they liked the work, but maybe they’re like, wow, that’s a little bit pricey. And there’s only certain clients that’ll want that. I don’t know.

Ian R
I think, yeah, I think there’s a balance between underpricing and overpricing because I find most home inspectors under price commercial jobs more often than not, and overpricing can happen, but I think it happens more on the underpricing side personally, from my experience. For instance, I was working with somebody and they bid a job. And I said, here’s probably, here’s what you’re going to charge, and here’s probably what others are going to charge. And he said, yeah, that’s exactly what happened. They were all under bidding, because they treated it like that dental, well, it used to be house. I’m like, okay, what about ADA compliance and access? What about exterior emergency lighting? What about, what about this and that, you know, you have a lot to consider. It’s not a house anymore. You don’t have two people there. You have a bunch of people there.

Rob Claus
Yup, and you’re right. And that’s what separates a dabbler, doing one or two commercial inspections, versus a professional Certified Property Inspector that focuses on it. And that’s what we’re paying for, whether you’re only going to do four commercial inspections a year, do it right.

Ian R
Oh, yeah.

Rob Claus
Or whether you’re going to do four commercial inspections a week and grow a business.

Ian R
Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. So I guess the answer is, it’s too complicated to really say, here’s your model. But I would love to see, if you want to take one of Rob’s course, courses, I really encourage you to, especially just the estimating part, sounds like it’s incredibly valuable to know how much to charge for a commercial building to have those four different models and templates. That sounds awesome. I do have a question about insurance, though. So I guess that gets asked a lot too is, can I just use, I think it’s called a light commercial writer, which is on a lot of insurance policies for home inspectors. So that’s like office buildings, you know, nothing industrial. Or should I get a completely separate commercial policy, which I have to say, they look crazy high, like they’re, they’re not cheap policies typically.

Rob Claus
So So great question. Most of the typical carriers that provide errors and omissions and professional liability insurance for residential, residential inspectors do cover commercial. And they usually treat it as a percentage. You know, if you’re 5% or 10% of your business, it’s usually just, okay, it’s always included. And if you’ve got a super huge project, like you’ve talked about, then you’d call them up and get an endorsement for that job. Now, most of those policies don’t cover daycares, commercial kitchens, commercial cooking areas, and some other type, medical, some other, some other types of buildings like that. So you really want to read your policy very, very tightly. There’s a couple of them out there. And I promise you I’m not, I wasn’t gonna give names so I’m not, that do cover everything included with your residential. So the whole key is have a conversation with your carrier, and it’s typically one of the known ones that sells to residential, but the big difference that I always tell everybody is beyond the what’s covered what’s not covered. As a home inspector, you’re used to, holy cow, they just asked for a copy my insurance, I’m not going to do an inspection for them. They’re going to sue me because they’re already asking for it. On commercial, eight out of 10 clients ask for a copy of your insurance before they’ll even hire you.

Ian R
Yeah, exactly.

Rob Claus
And half of those are going to ask to be insured on your policy. So get over it. It’s a fact of life. It takes 24 hours. It doesn’t cost you anything. It’s part of business.

Ian R
Yeah. No. And if you don’t mind me asking, we don’t like, we don’t like it when people mention companies in a bad light. But if you have an insurance company that you like for commercial inspections, please feel free to mention it. It’s more than fine. EliteMGA?

Rob Claus
EliteMGA is the only one out there that will cover all types of properties, because they understand the concept.

Ian R
Yup. So I do want to emphasize the importance of good insurance, because it’s a whole different world, like you’re gonna get sued in the home inspection world because of that leaky sink you mentioned, you’re gonna go to small claims court, they’re going to tell you how it ruined their lives, and it’s going to be silly and stupid and stressful. But they do that out of emotion. And without thinking, and 99% of the time an attorney that they try to hire will be like, this is silly and stupid, and emotional. But the problem is on the business side, they’re not going to, a business buying a $2 million building’s not going to sue you over a sink. They’re not going to care about your inspection fee. But now what if we did miss, like, maybe a steel rafter or a purlin that was cracked? Maybe we couldn’t see it? Or we honestly missed it. What happens is now they sue out of not like emotion, but they sue out of, this is part of business. I’ve seen guys get sued and then that same person hired them again, they’re like, it’s just business, go to your insurance company. It’s like day to day to them. So I’ve never been sued over a commercial job. But it doesn’t, to be honest with you, it just doesn’t happen. And you don’t get the same threats.

Rob Claus
Yeah, no, no, I don’t. I don’t, you know, and just short of 5,000 inspections, we really only ever had two complaints. One was customer service. The other one was an inspection I did with an EPDM flat roof that was ballasted. And stained ceiling tiles. I said your ceiling tiles are stained, and I can’t see the the EPDM. And he, and the client complained about a leaky roof. And then he goes, oh, wait, I never really read this report. Oh, that’s what you said. Yeah. So I don’t even count that one. But I have to, because it’s dissatisfaction. And it’s a good story.

Ian R
Yeah, it really is a different world. But I do like to be covered for it. So I have friends who work for an engineering firm. And they joke, they’re like, we have clients that sue us on multiple projects, and it’s just part of business, the bigger we get into the industry, you’re gonna run into more of that, and you just have good insurance. And it’s part of doing business, but 99% of time, you don’t really have to deal with that kind of stuff. But it is good to have good insurance.

Rob Claus
Your bigger thing with insurance, Ian, is if a home inspector is used to 1,000,500 policy, or maybe a 5 million, 1 million, you might up your limits, if you start encroaching in larger, more expensive properties. Have that conversation with your, with your broker or your carrier. That’s the only thing I, I get that, I get that question asked during my business class. And that’s what I tell everybody, just have the conversation, or stay in your comfort zone, only work in a certain type of commercial building, if that’s what you’re not comfortable with.

Ian R
Yeah, and some commercial clients, as you mentioned before, they’re going to look at your limits, they’re gonna be like, well, this guy doesn’t have regular commercial limits that we’re used to, they’re going to usually want to be additional insured and stuff like that. I’m glad you mentioned that. Don’t get freaked out when that happens. I mean, a lot of times you just send that stuff out with a proposal. Here’s our insurance, additional insured. And here’s our proposal. So, nice. So when it comes to your agreements, though, is there anything that you have recommendations for being state specific? Or is it, or is it can you use one agreement, and then maybe just tweak it for certain states by asking an attorney? How do you recommend going about that?

Rob Claus
So, we do provide an agreement to all of our members that they can use, it’s a good written policy, I always suggest you take that to your local, you know, your local council to verify that it doesn’t have substantial issues. But the attorney that wrote it is pretty well versed in this. I have never had an issue with using the same agreement across multiple borders, the key is you just want to spell out exactly what you’re going to do, what you’re not going to do, what your terms are, if there’s any expiry and all those other fun things. But then the key is, is your agreement’s just A, your proposal is B. And both of those together, protect your house.

Ian R
Yeah, and they’re tied together right, the A and the B.

Rob Claus
100%.

Ian R
Okay, and that’s good information. And I do like to go back to that point about when you have your agreement, it probably should, I’m not an attorney, reference, please see exhibit A, which would be the proposal, which would outline.

Rob Claus
Yes.

Ian R
And that would override anything that would be to the contrary, and the inspection agreement, for instance, like an inspection agreement would say, we’re going to look at your electrical, but the proposal may say, no electrical by request to the client, exactly.

Rob Claus
Or included in the proposal is also a description of the property. I am inspecting four buildings on this property with 374 units and inaccessible roofs, etc. So that if all of a sudden they’re popping you or suing you or wanting to do something over a seventh building, wait a minute, I only did four. That’s what the proposal is so beautifully at protecting you with.

Ian R
And I do, I do like the fact that you mentioned that too, because being specific is important. Because a lot of times when you’re doing hotels or nursing homes, like I’ve done in the past, you end up doing representative number of rooms, typically, especially if it’s a real estate transaction, and they may have you come back and do all the rooms later on. But you’ll say, okay, we’re going to take a representative sample, you know, 20 rooms in each wing, and there’s nine wings, and specify room number ranges, specify which wings, what number. I remember one hotel I did, I’ll mention my own mess up. I went and did a hotel. And we did a representative number of rooms. And they’re like, yeah, but we want two from each of these sections. And can you go back and do another 84 rooms? It’s like, well, I can see how, I can see how that, it wasn’t 84 rooms, I forget how many it was actually, like, I can see how you took it that way. And I just went back and did it. But here’s the thing, if you have to drive back and inspect a, you know, freezer outlet in the garage and a house like alright, that’s stank. But it took you 20 minutes out of your way. You have to go back and a margin of error on your proposal can be two days and $9,000. So just be specific, and be thorough.

Rob Claus
Yeah, yeah, you’re absolutely right. And that’s what we try very hard as an association. I mean, we’re, we’re here at the forefront of this industry. And, and we don’t know if there’ll ever be licensing for this. We don’t know if there’ll ever be regulation for this. But as an association with well over 1000 members across the country and continent I should say, that, that we’re here to help educate and increase the idea that commercial inspections are a viable industry. And we have a way to support each and every member.

Ian R
Rob, I can’t thank you enough. Some of the information you’ve given here today not only helps the audience, I’m making notes myself, so I’d really like to see you in person give one of these courses. This sounds really good.

Rob Claus
We’re actually, we’re in Orlando during the InterNACHI pro convention. Last year was the first year, this year will be the second, we actually have a complete 100% commercial track, and no other association’s ever done that.

Ian R
Nice. Well, I’m planning on being there, it’s in October I believe, Orlando in October?

Rob Claus
Yes.

Ian R
I plan on being there, love to meet you in person, love to sit in on one of your courses. And having you here today, it was just awesome, Rob. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and knowledge that you’ve gained over, sounds like if I’m doing my math right, a little over 40 years in the inspection industry. So thank you so much.

Rob Claus
Thank you, Ian, for having me. Have a great day. Stay safe.

Ian R
You too. Bye.

Outro: On behalf of myself, Ian, and the entire ITB team, thank you for listening to this episode of Inspector Toolbelt Talk. We also love hearing your feedback, so please drop us a line at [email protected].

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