SEE SAMPLE REPORTS

l

GET 5 FREE REPORTS

No Watermark, No Obligation

LOGIN

Log Into Your Account

SEE SAMPLE REPORTS

l

GET 5 FREE REPORTS

No Watermark, No Obligation

LOGIN

Log Into Your Account

IT IS A WELL-DISCUSSED SUBJECT IN THE INSPECTION INDUSTRY – SHOULD YOU HAVE A RETURN VISIT FEE? LISTEN IN AND FIND OUT!

CLICK HERE TO SEE MORE OF OUR PODCASTS

FOLLOW OUR PODCAST

CHAPTER MARKERS

0:00
Return Fees in Home Inspections
9:45
Charging for Revisits and Cancellations
20:41
Value and Confidence in Business
27:23
Pricing Strategies for Home Inspectors
35:58
Setting Pricing Standards and Overcoming Fear

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:

Ian Robertson
Welcome back to Inspector Toolbelt Talk, everyone. And today we have on one of my favorite guests, Randy Lima, how are you, Randy?

Randy Lima
Doing great, Ian, and thank you, as always, for having me. I appreciate you.

Ian Robertson
No, I appreciate you being on the show, and even our pre-recording chat was already turning into a, you know, a passionate conversation about the subject that we have today, which is basically an expanded conversation about return fees. Explain to me, Randy, why you brought this up for this podcast, a little bit.

Randy Lima
So this is a common topic that I see mostly on different, you know, forums, Facebook, in particular, the different inspector groups and, you know, people that are afraid to charge, you know, for going back because the water wasn’t on, or the gas wasn’t on, or electric, or, you know, whatever it might be, crawlspace was sealed and wasn’t accessible. And it just puzzles me. It just puzzles me. So I think maybe we can share some insight and some thoughts. Because my goal is, inspectors work hard, you know, and they should, they should value their time, and they should get paid for their time, yeah.

Ian Robertson
And this is, this is an important subject for me too, because it’s part of business in our line of work, we’re not going to go to every house and everything be available. I would say one out of 20 times we get there and the water shut off, like you said, or the gas or somebody was sick and in one of the rooms and you couldn’t get in. And the thing that I always hear agents say, and then vicariously, I hear the home inspectors say, so it’s like the agents are training the home inspectors to say this sometimes is, well, you were paid to do and to inspect that, and you didn’t inspect it. And so there’s this, like mental obligation or something in our head where, like, oh, well, I have to go back and do my job piecemeal, when half of our, you know, half of our, our fee goes to getting to the inspection anyways. You know, I always did the math. So if I have to go back, I have to drive 45 minutes there and 45 minutes back, there’s an hour and a half, if I have to spend half an hour fiddling around, doing whatever, and then another 15 minutes, adding that to the report, I’m like, I could have done a whole other inspection, but yet, people expect us to do it for free. And there’s this weird thing in our industry that we’re going to tie later on into pricing, that it, it, it’s basically like we feel obligated to do it for free, no additional charge, but that doesn’t happen in any other industry.

Randy Lima
Yeah, you’re right. I think you touched on a key point. We’ve got, we’re allowing agents to train us as an industry, and it really needs to be the other way around. And I think we set the tone. What other industry would would you expect somebody to come back repeatedly to complete, complete the job for an appointment. And I’m not talking about something that’s the inspector’s fault or something, you know, but time is money, and when you’re tying up an inspection slot to go back and finish something that should have been done, you know, before you got there the first time, and to touch on that. So one of the things you know you can do to make that easier is we, when we send out our initial booking email, you know, customer call, we schedule the inspection, or they schedule online, when we hit that send button, it automatically in the email says, hey, you know, thank you for choosing Integrity Home Inspections USA, blah, blah, blah, in order to give you the best inspection. Actually, it says, on the email to the agents, it says, to give your client, our mutual client, the best inspection, please make sure the following are in place. And we talk about electrical panel access, attic access, crawlspace access, all the rooms and, of course, utilities being on. So we put that in that initial email. Also it’s in our inspection agreement, and it speaks to a return visit fee, if those things are on. So we set the expectation up front, and so nobody should be surprised, and candidly, if I have an agent that doesn’t see my value and has a problem with that. That’s unfortunate, but I really don’t need that agent, Ian.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, you know, before the show, in line with what you’re saying, you’re saying, you know, if that agent doesn’t see the value, then oh, well, I send out these emails ahead of time so people see it before they even pay you likely, and they fully sign the agreement and everything. But you’re a successful home inspector. And I’ll tell you, I do the same thing. The emails that go out say, make sure you have all the water and stuff on, here’s our return fee. It’s in the agreement. I do the same things that you do, but we’re successful. But the worry that other home inspectors have is, well, if I do that, agents won’t refer me, and my clients will get upset. What are your thoughts on that? Why? Why do we get stuck in that mentality as an industry?

Randy Lima
I think some of it is, and I’ll go back to, be careful who you’re listening to. And what I mean is, when you’re on these forums and you see, you know, other inspectors talk about, well, you know, my agent, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, throwing a fit or whatever, you have to have the leadership courage to say, no, look, I’m a professionally trained home inspector. I have expenses. I’m taking a time slot where I could be booking another inspection. We communicate this in front, you know, up front, both in our inspection agreement before the client agrees to it, and in the initial notification email. So, you know, I lay that out, and I think it’s upon us. It’s incumbent upon us to train the agents, but if you don’t value your own time, no one else will. So I think you just have to have the leadership courage to just do it.

Ian Robertson
I think the leadership courage phrase is my big takeaway from, from what, just some of the stuff that, some of your thoughts that you sent me beforehand, leadership courage is what I took away from that, because we let fear and lack of leadership drive our industry and our business. So I remember many years ago when Facebook forums were becoming the big thing. So that’s aging myself a little bit. But I remember somebody asking that very question, been asked a million times, do you guys charge a fee? And everybody just blew up and said, no, you can’t do that. That’s a good way to go out of business and this and that. And I just remember saying something along the lines, I’m like, I’m not out of business. I do it all the time, and people never really, I’ve had a couple, I mean, I say never. I’ve had agents argue it, and I’ve had a couple clients say, well, that same argument. Well, you were paid to go into the attic. I’m like, yeah, but there was no hole into the attic. You had, you had to pay somebody to come, build an access because VA required it. It was long story. And now I’m coming back and using an entire inspection time slot to figure this all out. It’s out of my way. 99% of the time I don’t have that quote, unquote argument. And even then, they still paid. They’re like, oh, okay. It’s like, if we go to the ear doctor and we’re wearing earmuffs. We used up a whole time slot. We’re like, sorry, Doc, I can’t take these off. Okay, well come back. We do that two, three times. We’re getting charged for two, three appointments.

Randy Lima
As it should be, right?

Ian Robertson
As it should be. Your cable guy, your cable guy will charge you too. My HVAC guy will charge me if he comes and the door’s locked, okay, here’s 150 bucks for my travel charge, and then another 150 when I come back.

Randy Lima
So I think, you know, when I look out, I touched on it, when you have all these voices out there that say, well, you can’t do that. And I said, be careful who you listen to, well, yes, you can. And I am too, by the way, if you listen and you allow those opinions to influence you, then you’re devaluing yourself. You’re devaluing the industry. You’re not doing yourself any favors. I think it’s pretty simple, if you take the time to educate people. I’ve never had an agent throw a fit. I’ve had them say, oh, you know, how much is a return visit fee. But the funny thing is, they don’t say, is there a return visit fee, anymore? Now they say, how much is the return visit fee? That’s what’s changed. Because when I first started, I did the same thing, and I realized, man, I’m working for nothing. This is crazy, so it’s not why I went into business for myself. And so now the question is, how much is the fee? And you can go, you know, 100 different ways with that, whether it’s a flat fee, whether it’s a percentage of the original inspection cost, whatever it is, you got to get paid for your time. Again, I always people say, what do you do for a living? And you know, I’m a professionally trained home inspector. I don’t say I’m a home inspector. I’m a professionally trained home inspector. Ian, I’m a business person first, and a home inspector second. I really am. If, if it doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint, then I’m not doing it.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. I mean, then we’ve talked about that before on the show, that it’s two different skill sets, being a good home inspector and being a good businessman, and we have to kind of split our heart and our minds between the two, because at the end of the day, we’re like, oh, well, these people are buying a home. I want to help them out. They have a kid. It’s like, okay, but they’re also buying a $480,000 home, and they didn’t check to see if the gas was on before you got there. I like to be kind. I like to help my clients. Well, okay, in a special circumstance, I’ll give you a discount maybe on my return fee, because you know what, it was the seller’s fault. It wasn’t yours, and I’ll give a discount. But I never, I never waived the fee, and 90% of the time it’s fully there. You know, we talked about 80/20 rule or Pareto distribution in one of our previous podcasts. And I thought about that when you were saying, be careful who you listen to, because only 20% of the industry is doing 80% of the work. That means 80% of the industry is wrong. So 80% of the opinions that we hear out there are wrong, and we as humans kind of have this natural inclination, if that’s what everybody’s saying, that’s what we’re going to do. And sometimes we listen to 80% of the opinions who are on Facebook all the time, throwing their opinions out because they’re not like the other 20% maybe that are out there kicking butt, working hard, but a few of them are still on there, trying to help. But we totally blow through their opinions and say, no, that’s bad business. Be careful that we’re not listening to that 80%.

Randy Lima
You’re right, because it’s infectious, if you allow it to be, and that’s just it, you can’t, you have to think from from a business perspective, you know? You say, well, they got kids. Well, you have kids too, you know, my bills don’t stop. And I’m not trying to get over on anybody. It’s just common sense. Your time is money, you know. And I mentioned earlier, I do the email, and then I do it my agreement. I also, when I’m talking to them, if they don’t schedule online, when I’m talking to them, I tell them that as well. So what I’ve done is three different times now, I’ve talked to them about everything being accessible, the utilities being on. So number one, I consider that due diligence. I’ve done everything within my power. I can’t go turn the water on. I can’t go hook the gas up. So I’ve done all that. And what you’re also doing is you’re taking away excuses. You’re taking, well, I didn’t know. Well, yeah, you did, because it was an email to the agent, and if I don’t have a listing agent’s information, I ask in that email that goes out, it asks them, you know, please confirm with the listing agent the following, and it lists all those things out. So I think when you communicate up front and you’re clear and concise, here’s our policy, that people, they may not be thrilled that they have to pay for a revisit, but they knew, you know, and I think that really takes down the level of the arguments. I don’t have customers arguing with me over revisit fees. They know. It’s because we have set the tone on the front side. And, you know, I go back to, don’t do what everybody else is doing. Take a leadership position. You don’t want to follow in this business. If you want to be a maverick, a pioneer, somebody that pays your own way, you have to make tough decisions sometimes. And some of those tough decisions, you know, you know, they grind at you a little bit, but, but you got to bite the bullet, because I don’t think anybody, any inspector out there, is working for free. I mean, I know these these people work hard. They work hard. They’re crawling into horrible places underneath these houses. They’re in nasty, stinking attics, running into snakes and spiders and all this stuff. They deserve to be paid for their time. If there’s anything I could give to anyone that’s listening today, I would tell you, please value yourself, and I challenge you, if you are not charging for revisits due to these types of things, I challenge you to start tomorrow. What you charge, that’s up to you. Be competitive within your own market, but don’t allow people to run roughshod over you. You have to take control. If you don’t take control, then the business is running you. You’re not running the business. I had an old district manager, when I, when I was original director with Walmart, I had an old district manager. He used to tell me, he said, Randy, look him in the eye and say, tell him you settle for what you have. You deserve what you get. And that stuck with me.

Ian Robertson
I like it. Yeah, that’s a good saying. And let me ask you this, Randy, and I already know the answer, I think. But when you started putting in a return visit fee, did you find that your return visit requests went way down?

Randy Lima
Absolutely. I’m so glad you mentioned that, Ian, because I didn’t even think about that in my notes. But that’s exactly what happened, because they knew, okay, this is going to cost me a couple 100 bucks if he has to come back out. All of a sudden it started happening less and less and less, which is really the goal. I’m not looking to get people for an extra 200 bucks. I just want to be paid for my time. I would rather everything be on the first time. Because even if you charge 200 bucks or half the inspection fee, whatever it is, and you go back out to do that revisit, you’re still giving up a time slot for a full inspection. So you’re still not winning, you’re just losing less, you know. So the idea that those revisits went down is fantastic, and that’s exactly, and I haven’t tracked it, but I can tell you, it’s probably less than half of what it used to be.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, you know, it’s funny, because I think of it as the missing beer syndrome. You ever have that one friend that you invite to a barbecue and they forget to bring beer? So what do you do? You go out and you buy beer. The next time you invite them, they forget it again. So you go out and buy more beer. The third time you invite them, you bought beer anyways, they show up to the barbecue without beer, and they said, oh, good. I knew you’d buy it. So basically, we trained our friend to never fulfill his obligation. So when we say we’ll just, one time we go and we do a return visit, we say, oh yeah, those are free. Click. We just train that agent to not care or not prepare, because it doesn’t cost anybody anything. So we train them to not bring beer to the inspection. I lost that whole beer analogy. I’m just kidding.

Randy Lima
But I love the analogy. It’s exactly what that is. We’re training them, that they can use and abuse you.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, exactly. You can, you can be abused and taken advantage of. And the more we do that, the more we devalue ourselves. And we talked about even price as a trigger for value, we talked about, you know, listen, if we’re gonna go to a dentist, are we gonna go to the dentist that has a really nice building, has nice equipment, and has a little form that we sign and say, if you miss your appointment, it’ll be X amount of dollars. And like, okay, they got their stuff together. Or the guy going, hey, if you miss the appointment, don’t worry. Just come back anytime, and I’ll just fit you into the chair. It’s like, nah, dude, that’s like some back alley dentistry, right there I’m not comfortable with. So our price and what we charge and how we go about those things trigger value, consciously or subconsciously in people’s minds. It’s hard to teach ourselves that, though, because there’s always that element of fear that people are going to react badly. We have to be okay with people reacting badly, and then we’ll find out 90% of the, 99% of the time, they’re really not going to react badly. It’s kind of like not return fees, but charging people for cancelations. We’ve had a couple podcasts on that one. That’s kind of an argument that goes along the same line of things. Have you ever, do you charge for cancelations, Randy?

Randy Lima
I do. A matter of fact, if you cancel within 48 hours, it’s, it’s non refundable. Now I will apply it to a future inspection. You know? I mean, again, I’m not trying to get over on people, but you know, I’m booking at my capacity every week. And I think I’ve told you this, I’m going to turn down over 150 inspections this year, and I actually track it.

Ian Robertson
Nice.

Randy Lima
You know, you cancel on me 48 hours. I may not be able to get that spot filled that quick. You know, and because, in many cases, now, some of the agents know that I book a week out, and they may not even call, you know, if, if they go online and look and see that, okay, he doesn’t have anything available, they’re going to move on to the next one. So now I’ve got an, I’m sitting at home, you know, so and again, we put that in the agreement, in the initial notification, we’re very clear about it. And I think if you do that, you’re being transparent, and people respect that. They may not like it, but they respect it. And I think there’s a difference there. I think also you can feel good about it because you’ve done your due diligence and now if you don’t do any of that, I could see where somebody might be upset. So I think it’s really important that if you’re going to do those things, you know the revisit fee, or re inspections, that’s a whole other thing, or cancellations, that you’re up front, and you lay it out there so people understand, so that they’re not surprised, because you don’t want people to be surprised, and that’s on us. We’re the ones that have to communicate that upfront so that people understand what, what the rules of engagement, so to speak.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, and it loses its value if we don’t, if we don’t put it up front. So, you know, we want to project our value and confidence and leadership and training people, and if we’re just hiding it in an agreement somewhere, it’s not, it’s not gonna, it’s not gonna have the same good effect that we’re looking for. We use a call center, and they’ll even tell people about it on the phone once they book. Say, okay, we’re booking this. Here’s the cancellation fee. I don’t think since we’ve had a cancellation fee, and, man, we’ve been doing it forever, I don’t think we’ve had anybody ever cancel because of the cancellation fee. They go, oh, yeah, that’s fair. We’re used to it. Everybody has a cancellation fee, except for us as an industry, for some reason, because we’re letting our clients and agents dictate how we run our business. Did cancellations go down after you did a cancellation fee?

Randy Lima
Yeah, actually, they did. Now, not by the same, you know, same amount as what the revisits did. But I think probably the most interesting thing is now others within my market, I’m in the Memphis, Tennessee market, and, you know, I talked to some of the other inspectors. We network and engage. I’ve reached out to them because I think it’s healthy to have a good, good relationship with fellow inspectors. And some of them have started charging re-inspection fee because they weren’t confident. You could hear it in their voice when we talked about it, and I said, well, I’m getting paid for my time. And some of them have even followed suit. You know, this goes back to the same thing, you know, I raised prices again recently, and Ian, I’m still turning down work like crazy, okay, so I’m gonna keep raising them until I’m not turning down work anymore. You know, I’ve got today off, the afternoon anyway, I did one this morning. But, you know, it’s nice, because if you make more per inspection, you’re not working this much for the same amount of money, you know, duh. You know, it’s amazing, right? But, yeah, your competition will even follow suit. It may take a little bit of time. If you have relationship with them and you communicate with them, it’ll happen quicker. But that has definitely been the case here in Memphis, Tennessee.

Ian Robertson
You said a lot of beautiful stuff that speaks right to my cores of business ideology, the networking, spreading positive leadership in our industry. And it is surprising like once, I remember years ago when we started doing septic inspections and when we started doing cancellation fee, everything and return visit fees, I remember almost invariably, most people that I would talk to would be like, you’re never gonna make it doing stupid stuff like that. And then, lo and behold, three, four years later, guess what everybody else in my market is doing? Just that. And I’m happy with it. I’m thrilled with it because that means it was the right thing to do. It just took everybody else to to figure that out. And I’m not saying that to sound arrogant. And I know you’re not saying it to sound arrogant. The thing is, with you, Randy, you know, you listen to the 20% until you become one of the 20% out of the 80/20 rule. Problem is we, we’re listening to the wrong people. It’s kind of like, I don’t know we’re listening to the people who are clients and agents, they’re the ones who are going to experience the advantage of us not charging for those services.

Randy Lima
Yes, sir.

Ian Robertson
What client or agent is going to say, you know, what you’re going to, you should charge for these services. Some will. Some are going to be like, you know, that’s not good business. I’m, you know, I appreciate it, but that’s not good business. But the vast majority are going to be like, okay, yeah, no, you shouldn’t charge for that at all. I’m not going to go and say, you know, you should charge an extra $5 for this hamburger. Here’s an extra $5, you know. But it’s true, everything that you said there when it comes to return visit fee. Can I ask you, what are your return visit fees? Do you do a percentage or a flat fee?

Randy Lima
So when I started off doing it, I charge 175 and and, and that’s, it depends. Truthfully, I have a range. And it says that in the email, 175 to $200, so 200 is the max, and that really is, if it’s a little further out, that’s all it is. But pretty much 175 so, you know, obviously our average inspection is 475 so I’m losing $300.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, exactly.

Randy Lima
Even at charging that fee, if I don’t charge that fee, I’m losing 475.

Ian Robertson
Yeah.

Randy Lima
So, which is insane to block a spot and you know. And here’s the other thing, if you have a circumstance where you just feel touched and you want to waive it for a particular agent or something, or, you know, you have that flexibility, but the caution I would give you with that, if somebody’s going to do that, is you need to tell that agent, look, I’m going to waive that this time. Again, you’re managing expectations. I’m going to waive that this time, because it’s 10 minutes from my house and all we’re looking to do here is the electrical thing. You know, it’s not a lot of stuff, so you know, that way they still understand that next time you’re likely to charge them. So communicating, I think, is critical, and you don’t have to send an email out and say, hey, effective immediately, we’re charging return. No, don’t do that. Don’t do that. Same thing. If you increase prices, you don’t send an email out, tell everybody, I’m increasing prices. No, you just do it. You just do it. And you know, and most of my agents don’t even care. I mean, as long as you’re competitive, they really don’t care. There’s some that do, but I don’t get challenged very often. I mean, I had a lady yesterday scheduling inspection, and she said, well, you’re a little more, you know, pricey in some of your options. Why is that? And I went into the whole thing. You know that, well, I’m professionally trained. I didn’t just wing it, you know. And I invest in top notch technology, you know, thermal image cameras, drone technology, and you know, they may not know what all that means, but I kind of educate them on it, on what those tools do, you know? And then I’ve got 240 plus Google reviews with a 5.0 rating, yeah, you know, you get what you pay for. And it’s not that I’m an amazing inspector. I guarantee you, half your audience, at least, are probably better inspectors than I am. It’s about the business, right? And showing your value, because if you don’t think you have value, no one else will.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, I would argue with you on you not being that great of an inspector. I think you’re fantastic, and your work speaks for itself. You can’t be a lousy inspector and have that good of a business. But at the same time, if you don’t value yourself, no one else will. That is a very, very true statement. People can pick up on our lack of confidence. They can pick up on the small cues of our lacks of confidence, like the pricing and things like that, and we try to shroud it in all sorts of different things. Like we like to say, I like to help people. I love to help people. That’s why I charge more, so that I can help them better, so I can take time with them, so I can have better tools, so I can have better training, so that I don’t have to do three inspections a day. So there, because we charge more doesn’t mean we don’t like to help people, but we like to shrouded in things like that, like, oh, well, people deserve a good inspection at an affordable price. It’s there’s, however we like to paint it in our own mind. It’s usually coming down to fear, fear of rejection, fear of failure, fear of losing work. Because even if we’re losing money, if it’s a quintessential guy digging a ditch, working as hard as you can, losing money, but he’s like, at least I’m working, that’s, that’s no way to run a business or to provide a great service to other people. I mean, even think, I was thinking about this not long ago. I remember when I wasn’t charging enough when I very first started, almost 20 years ago, and I remember just trying to keep my vehicle running. I’m like, this part’s expensive. New tires are expensive, and this and that, and I was late for an inspection one day because the control arm in my truck, there’s a control arm, but that doesn’t matter, the control arm in my truck seized. And I’m like, how was that providing a good service to anyone, very early on in my career, and from that time forward, I’m like, charging more. I need to charge enough so that I can have everything set so I can take care of my clients, and I turn on my vehicle, and it turns on in the morning. Just something simple like that is really critical, and if we devalue ourselves, we’re not going to be able to provide that kind of service to people. The truck is just an analogy for or allegory for basically everything we do in business.

Randy Lima
You’re right. And just imagine, Ian, if all of a sudden, tomorrow, we both woke up and every inspector out there was charging a return visit fee. Do you think people would stop having return visits?

Ian Robertson
It would go way down.

Randy Lima
Yeah, it would go way down. But the people that needed them, because it did happen, something wasn’t on or accessible and everything, they’re going to do it. You know, a good example. I got Starlink. Okay, we’re RV’ers, so when we travel, I want to make sure I have good internet wherever I go. They just raised the price from the Roam program is $150 a month. Just raised it up to 165. I’m like, that sucks, but guess what? I’m keeping it because it’s a quality product and I need it and really it goes back to value, showing your value, they do have a superior product. My reception is great when I’m in the middle of nowhere, so I think we’re much the same. Let’s, let’s face it, I mean, people hire a home inspector. Why? Because they do not have the skill set to inspect their own homes. If they knew what to look for when inspecting the furnace and opening it up, if they knew what the failed signs of a failing heat exchanger were or, you know what, a short cycling furnace. They’d the inspection themselves. They’re hiring us because we have, I’m gonna sound like Liam Neeson here, we have a unique set of skills, okay, and but, but it has value and it, and I don’t say this. I hope that anybody that listen doesn’t for a second think I’m berating them, because I’m not. I want every inspector to win. I want them to win. I want them to be successful. I want them to make as much money as they can and still be fair, okay, because they work too hard. If, uh, if just one inspector here, you know, and, that’s another challenge. I’ll mention another challenge to any of the inspectors that might be listening. If you decide that you’re going to start charging a revisit fee, or you’re going to raise your prices, whatever it might be, blow up Ian. Send them, put a comment on the podcast. Send them an email, tell him, because I’m telling you, it starts with us. We cannot be victims. We have to take, it’s when in charge, take charge.

Ian Robertson
It blows me away every time. So we’re still in technically a down market for home inspections, one of the worst I’ve seen in my career. We just raised our prices again a few months ago, and we got busier, and I keep bringing it up on the podcast because I’m like, I don’t know how else to explain it. It’s simple math. We talked about the spectrum a few podcasts ago, where the middle is where you don’t want to be, but that’s where we all end up, either in the low end or in the middle. But every time I push and push to the higher end of the spectrum of pricing. We get busier. I was just talking with another inspector the other day. He goes, Ian, I just raised all my prices. He didn’t do a huge amount. It was like, $25 a piece for all of his services. And he’s like, I’m booked up. He goes, it not only got, he’s like, I’m ahead of where I was last year. And he’s like, so he raised it again, another $25 per service. That’s $50 per service, and he does an average of three on an inspection. It’s $150 extra inspection, two inspections a day. That’s $300 a day, five days a week. That adds up. That’s an extra, I’ve lost my math here, Randy, is that 1500 dollars a week?

Randy Lima
1500, yeah, so I mean, and then multiply that times.

Ian Robertson
That’s $75,000 a year.

Randy Lima
Yeah, it’s huge.

Ian Robertson
It’s huge. And I’m like, even if, even if you got slower, and let’s say you got slower and you lost some inspections, now you’re still making, let’s say, $50,000 extra a year, but working less. I’m like, I don’t see the downside of the situation, and I’m not, I’m not saying that I don’t worry about it. Everything that I do, I always worry about, it’s kind of my nature. I overthink it, and then I end up just executing. I worry about it every time we raise prices, I worry about, is this the right timing? Is this the right market? Is this the right way? Is this the right amount? I worry about when I did cancelation fees, when we started doing return visit fees, we almost never do a return visit. Almost never happens, because people know, every time we do it, it always works out. Because, you know what? I was listening to people a lot smarter than me saying, just do it. You know, Jay Wynn had a quote the other day, uh, Isaac Newton said, If I can see far, it’s because I sit on the shoulders of giants. I listen to people a lot smarter than me, and just did those things, guys like you, telling us to value our services properly.

Randy Lima
I listened that podcast too, was a great episode, and it just reinforces, but it all comes down to leadership courage. The inspector has to have the leadership courage to try things. And you can’t, you know, and like you, I consider everything I do. I just don’t say, I want to raise prices, you know, out of the blue, I mean timing and amount and all that comes into consideration. But this is going to be a record year for us in a down market, a record year, I’m going to do, and I’m a solo operator, so and guys like, I’m not booking nine a week or 10 a week. I don’t want that many. That’s just not who I am. I want to have time for my family. My sweet spot is about seven a week. And what I’ll do is, if you know, I’ll double book Monday, and then, you know what, Tuesday, I’ll block my afternoon off, and I can only take a morning, maybe double book Wednesday, Thursday, I block my afternoon off, you know. So that’s how I do things. It just works for me. If I was probably younger and in better shape, maybe, you know, and a young buck, I probably go ahead and I’d probably do nine a week. I don’t work Friday afternoons anymore. You know, I don’t want to be working on reports Friday evening. Okay? I don’t work weekends anymore. I know I could do more, like I said, I’ll turn down over 150 this year, but I’m good with that, because I would rather do the same amount inspections and make money, or less inspections, and make more money or the same money, even, right? I went into business so I could have a work life balance. And I think it’s really important. I think the other thing do is your psyche. You can’t feel good going to a house, making a return trip, 30 minutes across town, or 40 minutes, whatever it may be, both ways, and then spending, you know, half hour there, 45 minutes, maybe an hour and a half, even, depending on what was off, you can’t feel good about that, thinking, man, I’m not getting paid for this. So it goes back to the psyche too. You want to feel good about what you do, and you’re not going to feel good about it if you’re not charging a fair fee. I’m not suggesting you charge them the full fee to go back, but charge something, and maybe 175 is not right for you, and that’s fine. I understand that you got to be competitive within your market, and again, if you lead, you will find that others will follow. Because raise your hand, right, if we’re in a room with inspectors, raise your hand if you want to make less money. I don’t think you’re going to see any inspectors raise their hand. Okay, so if you set the tone and be a leader within your market, you will impact others, and that’s a glorious thing, because you’re not just helping yourself, but you’re helping your peers. You’re helping the industry.

Ian Robertson
You know, there was a quote that we were talking about earlier from Teddy Roosevelt, if you constantly bring up a problem without bringing up a solution, that’s called whining. So I know you’re like, I don’t want to be harsh. I’m not trying to be harsh. I’m quoting Teddy Roosevelt. So there you go. We all like to complain about agents and how people quibble over our $300 inspection or, you know, oh, why did this guy make it big and I didn’t, I’m working twice as hard as he is. Okay. We’re not looking at the solutions right in front of our face. And we all like to have excuses. This is what I like to hear, in MY market, that doesn’t work. I live here, that doesn’t happen, or the agents in my area expect XYZ. I’ve heard all of the excuses. I know so many home inspectors across the US and Canada that almost invariably, I can, when somebody tells me that I can say, look up this person’s website, you see him, he’s charging twice as much as you, does he look like he’s suffering? No, it looks like he has two inspectors under him now. See, that’s what I’m talking about. In just two years. I’m like, whoa, okay, and we try to go through the exercise. I’m like, talking about the problem without trying the solutions is not doing anybody any good. Like even raising prices. I think, think it was you or somebody else said, just try raising your prices. Do it, do it for a month or something like that. See what happens. You can always bring your prices back down. You know, compare, do A, B, testing, whatever we need to do. Try a cancellation fee. If all of a sudden your entire business blows up and nobody hires you, and all the agents and clients are yelling at you. Let me know about that. I’d love to hear it, because it’s not going to happen. We’re all used to it. It’s funny how it always works out consistently like that, too, but it’s a matter of like you said, be a leader, and don’t follow the 80%.

Randy Lima
So when I first started, I was doing a lot more investment properties, and I’ve kind of priced myself out of investment properties, too large for me. I still do some, but, you know, they’re often very bad houses. I mean, I was doing houses that are $80,000 houses, okay? And in South Memphis. So you know what you’re looking at when you go to an $80,000 house, okay, it’s going to be rough. And they’re almost invariably all 1920s, 1930 houses, crawl spaces. You’re doing, I mean, you’re working hard, and every inspection is taking longer, and so I remember, you know, those were the ones that were really notorious for not having all the utilities on, or crawl.. I’d show up, and the crawl space is cemented in. They put cinderblock in there and mortared it in, or there’s a padlock on it and whatnot. And it was happening a lot, and so, but I was, like, you said, I was a little scared to try the whole revisit thing. I really was, man. I fought internally and wrestled with it, and finally, I just said, this is happening way too much, and I’m not getting paid, and so I just, I ripped the band aid off, man, and just did it. And it’s way better than I could have ever imagined. I was my own worst enemy. I had almost, because I was listening to the person that has 100 problems but can’t find a solution, and they’re out there. You go on Facebook, there are those inspectors out there that will give you 1000 reasons why something won’t work, but can’t come up with one reason how they can make it work. And I’m telling you, that’s poison. That is poison. I’ve supervised employees like that too in the past, and they will infect the whole industry. So we as leaders have to choose who we listen to. We have to take a stand, and we have to sometimes just, it takes guts. It takes guts. You just gotta dig deep, but you’re cheating yourself if you’re not, if you’re not doing it, it’s just that simple. Man, I feel like I should give you an amen or high five or something for that, for that last statement, no way to top any of that. That was very well said and spot on. Thank you for that, Randy. You’re welcome. And Ian, this also goes to reinspections too, to a lesser extent, I think people, you know, most of the time, are going to expect to pay for a reinspection of defects, you know, that were repaired. And I started off charging 175 for that. Now I charge half the original inspection fee, up to 15 items, and then $10 an item after that. And guess what? They pay it. They pay it, because that’s just, that’s my price. And you go to Walmart and, you know, buy a, you know, XYZ, you don’t get to go up to the cashier and haggle the price. That’s what they charge. You either want it or you don’t. And, and I don’t say that again, not to be arrogant, but you’re in charge of your pricing. No one else.

Ian Robertson
Yep, and even if we’re just starting out, there’s this weird mentality that we can’t do any of this stuff when we’re just starting out. I know, I wished I had done this when I started out, and I know plenty of guys that I work with closely that start out charging more than the average price, that start out charging for return visits and starting charging cancellation fees, and they start out better than I did, because we had this weird mentality that if we’re just starting out, we’re in our first couple years, year or two, we have to charge low prices to break in. All that does is make us cut our teeth on, usually low end inspections, and leaves a bad taste in our mouth, and a level of fear in the back of our head. And then we get stuck in a rut. Start off the right way.

Randy Lima
You know, it’s kind of too, if you ever had a dog, a puppy, you know, you let that puppy get up on the couch, you let that puppy get up on the couch, you let that puppy get up a couch, and all of a sudden you decide you want to take a stand, and dog’s not going to allowed on the couch anymore. Guess what? It’s a lot harder to break that puppy’s habit now. So it’s much the same, is whether you realize it or not, you’re training your agents and you’re training your clientele. If you come out of the gate charging, that’s much easier than if you’ve been letting it go and not doing it. So the longer you wait to start doing it, the more people you are training to expect that you won’t charge for it. So, you can either be the puppy or you can be the business person.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, that’s a fantastic illustration. I’ll add even one more layer on it. We’re training ourselves, because the things that we have to overcome is our own training, our own training that low prices gets us work or not charging this or charging that, so we have to untrain ourselves, in addition to our agents and clients and yeah, best to start off the right way. But listen Randy, every podcast you come on, I really appreciate it. Awesome subjects. You still hold the candle for our most popular episode, your first episode you did with us. So thank you for that.

Randy Lima
They’re gonna get tired of me, Ian.

Ian Robertson
I know right. No, not at all.

Randy Lima
They’re gonna get tired of me.

Ian Robertson
Not at all. No, we love hearing you. Thank you very much for sharing your wisdom, and we’ll look forward to talking with you another time.

Randy Lima
Thank you. I appreciate it, Ian, appreciate you.

Outro: On behalf of myself, Ian, and the entire ITB team, thank you for listening to this episode of Inspector Toolbelt Talk. We also love hearing your feedback, so please drop us a line at [email protected].

If you’re enjoying the conversation, don’t forget to hit the subscribe button. Our podcast is available on all major podcast platforms. For more information on our services and our brand-new inspection app, please visit our website at Inspectortoolbelt.com.

*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast, and the guests on it, do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Inspector Toolbelt and its associates.

Home Inspectors Marketing directly to consumers and not agents
LISTEN TO OTHER HOME INSPECTION PODCASTS FROM INSPECTOR TOOLBELT TALK. YOU CAN ALSO FOLLOW US ON SPOTIFY AND ALL OTHER MAJOR PODCAST CHANNELS.

PODCAST SUMMARY/BLOG

In the latest episode of our podcast, we delve into a topic that many home inspectors struggle with: charging for return visits. Joined by industry expert Randy Lima, we explore why it’s crucial to command respect and maximize efficiency by implementing return visit fees. Whether it’s dealing with restricted access or utilities being off, the discussion reveals how inspectors can effectively communicate these policies to clients and agents to assert the value of their services.

Return fees are often an overlooked aspect of home inspections, but they are vital for maintaining professionalism and efficiency. When utilities are off or access is restricted, inspectors face significant challenges that disrupt their schedules and waste valuable time. Randy emphasizes the importance of setting clear expectations through booking emails and inspection agreements, ensuring that clients and agents are aware of these policies upfront. This not only helps in reducing conflicts but also teaches clients to respect the inspector’s time, ultimately decreasing the need for return visits.

A critical point of discussion is the 80-20 rule, which highlights that a small percentage of industry leaders drive progress while the majority may offer misguided opinions. By setting firm policies for return visits and cancellations, inspectors can focus on their core tasks and reduce unnecessary follow-ups. Real-life anecdotes and actionable advice from Randy provide valuable insights into how to elevate business practices and maintain professional boundaries that enhance efficiency and profitability.

Pricing is another intimidating subject that the episode tackles head-on. Many business owners fear charging higher fees, worrying about losing clients. However, Randy explains that appropriate pricing reflects the inspector’s expertise and helps avoid financial pitfalls. Professional training, advanced technology, and glowing customer reviews are just a few ways to justify higher fees. By embracing their worth, inspectors can lead a sustainable and successful career. Raising prices can sometimes lead to increased bookings and an improved work-life balance, as clients perceive higher fees as a mark of quality and professionalism.

The conversation also touches on the importance of valuing oneself and one’s work. By taking a leadership position in business practices, inspectors can set boundaries that reinforce their professionalism and efficiency. Clear communication of policies, whether through emails, inspection agreements, or direct conversations, is essential. This transparency ensures that clients and agents are aware of the expectations, reducing the likelihood of disputes and fostering respect for the inspector’s time and expertise.

Moreover, the episode addresses the challenges of transitioning from low-end to higher-end investment properties in the context of home inspections. Randy shares personal experiences of dealing with tough, older homes and frequent issues like missing utilities and obstructed crawl spaces. Charging appropriately for services such as re-inspections and cancellations is crucial, even for new inspectors. Setting higher standards early on helps avoid future difficulties and trains clients and agents to respect the pricing from the outset.

The importance of networking and spreading positive leadership in the industry is also highlighted. Randy emphasizes that inspectors should not follow the crowd but rather pave their own way by making tough decisions and setting clear policies. By doing so, they can avoid being devalued and ensure that their time and expertise are respected.

In conclusion, this episode offers a wealth of insights for home inspectors looking to maximize efficiency, command respect, and achieve a sustainable, successful career. By charging for return visits, setting clear policies, and valuing their expertise, inspectors can elevate their business practices and foster better client relationships. Tune in to learn more about these essential strategies and transform your home inspection fees into respect and profit.