IAN AND DAVID SHARE SOME METHODS OF USING PSYCHOLOGY TO HELP SELL INSPECTIONS & HAVE SMOOTHER CLIENT/AGENT INTERACTIONS
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:
Ian Robertson
We have another episode here of Inspector Toolbelt Talk, or as I’ve been affectionately calling our podcast, The Belt. I kind of like that, don’t you, David?
David Nyman
Don’t think that’s gonna stick, that’s a terrible nickname.
Ian Robertson
I kind of liked it. I thought it was cool.
David Nyman
Sounds more like something, like your father would say, like, I’m gonna go get the belt. That has a positive connotation.
Ian Robertson
Maybe we can have an authoritarian kind of context. We’re going to tell you what to do. I put a roof over your head. That’ll be our new podcast format. Well, welcome back, everybody. I’m your host, as always, Ian. And again on today, we have David. I always have David on the podcast when we have to have these, what do you call them? Soft techniques or what? I don’t know what you call them. When you’re, when you’re working with people, and it’s not such a hard line of like, here’s how you solder a pipe, here’s how you, you know, do this on your computer, do that. It’s not a hard technique. It’s something that’s a little bit more malleable. And David, you tend to be really good at that.
David Nyman
Thanks. I thought you just had me on because you needed to have us cool little foreigners on your show.
Ian Robertson
I don’t know. Is that a rule now?
David Nyman
I do, I do like to defuse situations and talk to people and get along with them. So yeah, I can see, I can see that.
Ian Robertson
Would you define yourself as an extrovert?
David Nyman
Nah, not at all.
Ian Robertson
No? I don’t know, you kind of seem like one to me, you seem very social. You like to have a wide group of friends.
David Nyman
So, I mean, I like being with people, but I have a hard time with new people. So a group of people I don’t know, I usually sit quiet. And then it takes a while. And then they get to know me and they’re like, does this guy ever shut up?
Ian Robertson
Well, you know, I think a lot of people would probably put themselves in your category. I don’t know if any of us would ever say that we are a true extrovert. A true extrovert is just, I want to be with people and I need to be with people, I enjoy being with people. Anybody who listens to me or knows me, on the outside would say, oh, yeah, Ian’s an extrovert. I think you and maybe some others kind of know me a little bit differently. My wife is like, you just would never leave the house if you had the option. So I grew up painfully shy, like, wouldn’t talk to other people, would leave the room before people would notice that I was there. I was just painfully shy. So I had to learn to be extroverted, or at least some techniques to make me look extroverted. And it’s gotten better over time, obviously, you know, took me 20, 25 years. But um, that’s what we’re going to talk about today, we’re going to talk about, how would we put this, social techniques, or psychological, I don’t want to call them tricks, because they’re not tricks. They’re just normal things that normal people do that we might not even think about. Salesmen use these tricks all the time. And I use the vast majority of these that we’re going to talk about, and there’s a lot of them, we might not even get through all of them in this podcast, we don’t want the podcast to go too long. But if we’ve ever found ourselves being introverted, or not knowing what to do in a situation, or not knowing how to handle something, maybe one of these pointers will help you out. I know they’ve helped me out. And David, you’ve, you’ve reviewed these, any of these that you think you might put in your mix?
David Nyman
Yeah, I did read a few of them, like some, some I might have done already to an extent. But I realized that, you know, it’s actually a technique that I could hone. And I think it’s good too, to introduce these to our listeners, because I think most extroverts probably died out during the pandemic, when they couldn’t be with people.
Ian Robertson
You know, it’s, it is funny, though, because even an extrovert will sometimes feel like they have a handle on a situation socially speaking, especially us as home inspectors with agents and on the inspection and clients. We’re always dealing with these awkward social situations. But sometimes, even an extrovert can use a tip, hey, you know, if you just do this, and they’re not any kind of like, black trick, you know, some sort of magic that we’re using to psychologically break somebody. It’s just observing human nature and saying, oh, oh, that’s what humans do when they want people to do this or to think that way. And it just makes sense.
David Nyman
Yeah, kinda reminds me too, reading through these, it was a TV show a while ago called Lie to Me. I don’t know if you ever saw that, where they were talking about micro expressions. And, and he was like, an analyst for criminals and could tell exactly what they were thinking when they were doing and saying certain things. Of course, that was, you know, wildly exaggerated, exaggerated, you know, just pseudoscience. But you know, some things definitely you know, human nature and, and the way you act can, can affect other people.
Ian Robertson
You know, it’s funny. Before we get into our first point, when I presented this subject to you, you’re, you’re kind of like, oh, this is trickery. And you’re like, you never use this on somebody else who uses these tricks. And that’s kind of true. Chicken recognized chicken is what, what they say, I remember one time there was this guy, and he was he was a very successful guy in the army. I don’t know what he did. But he dealt with people all the time. And I used one of these techniques on him without even thinking. And we both stood there and laughed. And he just loved me after that. He was just like, hey, you know that? I’m like, yeah, I know that. And it was just kind of funny. But, so it’s not like we’re playing mind tricks or anything. It’s just, oh, human nature, you do this. And this is what people generally do. So let’s start out with our first one. This one is super simple, and super easy. And probably most of us do it without even thinking. And it’s nod your head up and down slightly when you want someone to agree with what you’re saying. Have you ever tried that?
David Nyman
I’m trying to get you to disagree with this.
Ian Robertson
David’s shaking his head no. But you know, that is actually the reverse. And the same thing, like if you want to make some sort of action look shameful. Shake your head to the side, like so for instance, “the seller put in the wrong window”, and shake your head to the side. Now, all of a sudden, people are like going, “shame on them.” Yep. So it actually kind of works. I have a friend who does this. And he’s caught me up in it. Like, he’s like, you know what I’m talking about. And he’s shaking his head up and down. He goes, and you see this, I’m like, yeah, I see that. And I’ve caught him doing it to me a couple of times. He’s not doing it on purpose. But I’m like, stop making me agree with you. But oftentimes, that helps when we’re dealing with a difficult situation on an inspection. So we’re going through, and we know, the seller is going to find a contractor to argue with us. Say, no, this is perfectly fine. It’s always been like this, yada yada yada. And our clients can get easily swayed one way or the other, when we know this is going to cost them money later on. Try that the next time we’re bringing out a defect, you know, “this rim joist has rotted,” and shake our head up and down. “The contractor is probably going to tell you it’s okay, but you really need to get this fixed.” And we’re shaking our head up and down, just gently nodding those micro, what did you call them, David, from that TV show?
David Nyman
Micro expressions.
Ian Robertson
Micro expressions, you know, and then all of a sudden, they’re agreeing with us. It’s a nice way to not play mind tricks, but to solidify our point. And, and it really does work. You know, not 100% of the time, but it does.
David Nyman
Yeah, especially if you’re making a solid point, of course, you can’t, you know, change someone’s mind completely over just with a nod. So it’s more of a reinforcement technique than anything else, I’d say.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, that’s a good point. It’s a reinforcement technique of something that’s already solid, we’re not going to convince somebody of something absolutely crazy, although maybe sometimes, you can try to use it like a Jedi mind trick, but ultimately, it’s just going to be a reinforcement technique of a point that we’re trying to make. It also works well with public speaking. So if we have an office presentation, or talking for a large audience of first time homebuyers at a seminar or something, you know, a little bit of nod when we’re talking, especially when we’re talking about our services. We’re here for you. We know what it’s like being a first time home buyer, and we’re shaking your head up and down. All of a sudden, you’ll notice people in the audience, at least one or two of them starting to subconsciously nod with us. So that’s a nice little technique. Alright, so the next one, David, can you share that with us?
David Nyman
Yeah, so it’s good when someone is being rude to you, just staring at them silently, instead of responding in turn or doing anything else. Just look at them. And it actually makes them feel uncomfortable in this situation. And that way, usually, they’ll try to correct their behavior because they realize they’re being rude, especially from your cold silence there.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, we do have to be careful with that one. I’ve used that personally. Many, many times. Because, you know, maybe the seller is at home and being rude or one of the agents shows up and is being rude. Sometimes my client’s been, being rude. I had a client, their daughter-in-law came. I have never met a more rude person on an inspection in my life. And I remember my client was the nicest guy in the world, and he kept apologizing, he’s like, I’m so sorry, I’m so sorry. But every time she would be rude to me, I would just, I wouldn’t make like a face. And I wouldn’t just give them a blank, empty stare, because sometimes that can make people angrier. Like, you just give them this blank, dead stare. I just looked at her and not say anything. And then there’d be this long, awkward pause, eventually, I think she started to hear herself. And after she would be done talking, there’d be this long, awkward pause. And she went away. And she was probably the most difficult person I’ve used that on. Most of the time you do that once to someone. And they kind of know it. I had an agent one time, she wasn’t trying to be rude, I think. But she came in and she came in swinging, like she had probably just come off a bad inspection. And she just came in was completely rude. I stood there and stared at her. And everybody just kind of was quiet because they were expecting me to react. And I didn’t. And she goes, alright, well, you know, just continue with what you’re doing. I’m sure you’re gonna do a good job, and she walked away. It’s not magic, doesn’t work every time. But it’s a nice little technique. And if you only remember one of these, if it helps your day out a little bit. Remember, just be careful with that one, because sometimes it can tick somebody off a little bit more even.
David Nyman
Yeah, and I think, I mean, it boils down to something that we discussed before in an earlier episode that, you know, not responding to people’s aggression in turn, just that part of it is, is beneficial.
Ian Robertson
Yeah. So the next one is hysterical, because I watched it happen on an episode of The Office. If you’re an Office fan, Michael Scott, it was that day that he accidentally bought a woman, bought a woman’s suit at the store and accidentally wore it. And he’s trying to negotiate with Darrell. And one of the techniques that he looked up was to lower his voice to a whisper. And it was hysterical watching him try to do it because he was totally botching it up. But that’s actually a real technique. But it’s more for when people are, how do you put this, laying it on thick? Like, oh, yeah, like, you know, seller is there. Oh, yeah, we’ve fixed this. We spent 20 grand fixing it. My cousin is a master electrician. If we lower our voice, for some reason, I don’t know the psychological reasons why, but it tends to put the other person in a defensive position of what they’re saying. And eventually it starts to unravel a little bit. It’s a negotiation technique to. Negotiators use it when you are not giving your true position on your negotiation. Like, I want 20 grand, and they know you’ll go down to 10. So they just lower their voice. Is that your low, is that your lowest offer? And then they…
David Nyman
Sorry Ian, I can’t really hear what you’re saying there.
Ian Robertson
It doesn’t work all the time.
David Nyman
Yeah, I guess part of it is that they can actually hear for themselves how ridiculous they sound. That’s kind of a way to describe it.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, and, again, I don’t know all the psychological reasons. I have not used this one extensively. But there, it also works when somebody is also upset, which I think is more the situation that I’ve used it in. When somebody is upset and they’re speaking loudly. And it’s that old proverb, “an answer when mild turns away rage.” I lower my voice purposely. And it tends to calm them down. It’s like you just said, it’s almost like they can hear themselves. Okay, what I’m yelling at, yelling about, or yelling at this guy, is not making sense. And it’s makes them reflect on their own tone. It, kind of an interesting technique. Be careful with this one because otherwise you just look like a weirdo, if you’re sitting there whispering.
David Nyman
Especially, especially if you’re whispering in a very sultry way.
Ian Robertson
Then you just sound like creepy Batman, like when I had COVID last year. So, this one is also a very well known technique that attorneys use all the time. What’s, what’s our fourth technique there, David?
David Nyman
So this one is basically nothing. Just using silence as a tool to get them to either, you know, confess that they’re not telling you things straight or leaving out details. Just standing quietly waiting for people to feel the silence, because to admit it, most of us are pretty uncomfortable with silence.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, and this is an odd one, we have to overcome our own uncomfortableness with silence. But I have done this many times when clients call me back for quote unquote, issues. So recently, we had an issue, I won’t get into all the details, but they were telling us only part of the story. So okay, tell me what happened. Oh, well, this failed and was broken and it wasn’t in your report. And then there was this long silence. Are you still there? I’m here. You’re not saying anything. I know I’m listening. I just told you that it broke. Mhmm. Eventually, they actually just started telling us more details because it was uncomfortable, I was uncomfortable with the silence. I like to fill air, but I had to overcome my own uncomfortableness with it. And while that actually wasn’t so recently, now that I’m thinking about it, it might have been about two years ago, but they eventually just let it all out. And I found out that, you know, it was her father-in-law who tried to fix it. And then he didn’t do a really good job. He didn’t know what he was doing. They didn’t have it checked out after I did mention it in my report. And it was just, they started letting things flow a little bit. We have to overcome our own desire to fill that air, we have no obligation to fill the air, and that actually helps in a lot of different situations. So when we’re on the inspection, and I tend to fill a lot of air by talking, explaining things, talking as we go. But sometimes a little bit of silence can bring out things that we might not have known ahead of time, like the buyer, may be seeing if we catch an issue that was on the, on the sellers disclosure, and all that empty air, and all of a sudden, they’re like, you know, this was on the seller’s disclosure, are you going to look for this? Oh, yeah. Okay. I’m not sure why you didn’t tell me that before. Lots of little niche situations, but a little bit of silence goes a long way.
David Nyman
Yeah, no, I definitely see that, too. And I think it can help us to, like you said, we’re, we’re uncomfortable with ourselves. And sometimes I feel like, you know, if you’re gonna use this method, make sure you have a line that you can use to keep the silence going and explaining why it’s going. For example, you’re like, okay, I’m thinking about it, or, okay, just looking up some details about this inspection. That way, when they, you know, there will be silence, you have a reason for it, and they’re, like, still uncomfortable with it. So that can help you to like, extend it without without making it too difficult.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, and you know, most of these that we’ve gone over, I think five or six so far, are for generally speaking, difficult situations that are most useful in those particular kinds of situations. I remember one in particular, this is one of my favorite stories, this happened, probably, I want to say right around 2012, 2013, so about 10 years ago, and it was my favorite time for silence. So I called out some stuff, as you know, like, this needs maintenance or that, and the buyer for this property, her attorney calls me and freaks out on me. And he’s like, “I am a construction litigation attorney, you need to call these majors, you should have called this out, and this out, and this out.” And he was, just stuff that didn’t make sense. Like there was a door that didn’t close really well. And I’m like, “there was no structural issue.” He’s like, “I want, I want that in the report. You change the report, or, or I’m going to ruin you.” And I was just silent. I was pretty proud of myself. I was just completely quiet. “Are you listening to me?” “Yes, I’m listening.” “You need to do this now.” “Mhmm, now?” And I wasn’t trying to be rude. But you know, I just left long, awkward silences. And I remember an attorney talking about that, attorneys use that all the time to get information. So I said, “okay.” And I just said, thank you, and I hung up. And I just sat there and waited. I remember my wife going, you know, what are you going to do? I’m like, nothing, give it a little bit. And I thought it was gonna be like a day or two. It was within 20 minutes, I had this long email of him demanding that I change my report, and that this should be written as a major and that he knows more than me and, and he just incriminated himself all over it. So I just wrote back. Thank you. And I remember the seller trying to hire me. He’s like, that was amazing. Whatever you did, he’s like, you tore my house apart, first of all, you didn’t, everything you said was accurate. The contractors came and they’re like, oh, yeah, this is all exactly it. The buyer was happy. She’s like, thank you very much. That was great. And how you put my attorney in his place was awesome. And I’m like, I didn’t do anything. I just didn’t talk. It was just silence.
David Nyman
Amazing.
Ian Robertson
So what’s the, what’s the next one? We don’t want to linger too long on, on that one.
David Nyman
So this one is interesting. I hadn’t thought of it myself. You can ask people to explain, especially when they’re being offensive or something like that. Gives them you know, especially if you have other people around you, gives them time to think about what they just said. So it works well. You know, if they’re saying something off the wall, something ridiculous, and, and you know it and they probably know it too, and asking them to repeat themselves. They will realize how ridiculous it actually was.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, and that works really well with clients, agents, sellers and alike. I’ve had that used on me. My wife has used that on me. So I remember, you know, it’s not, she’s not using these techniques. But..
David Nyman
Are you sure?
Ian Robertson
Yeah, well, maybe she has a list of which technique am I going to use on Ian today? But I can remember a couple of times where I’m just like, you know, this is crazy. And, you know, just being me. And then she’s like, what do you mean? I mean, this. Okay, maybe I’m not understanding. Can you explain that? And as I explained, I’m like, that’s crazy talk. You’re right. So it does work. And you notice all these techniques are very calm. In no way, at any point in this, any of these techniques so far, do you actually confront the issue. You allow the person that’s creating the issue to confront it. So these aren’t all going to be difficult situation techniques, we’re going to get into a couple that are gonna be sales techniques that are actually very effective for both agents and on the phone with clients from trying to seal the deal. But they will help if we’re very calm. And, you know, just look at the situation objectively, and use one of these techniques. All right, so we got our next one. This is one of my favorites. And we almost didn’t include this one until I remembered that I have done this before. But I didn’t realize in this context. So this is more for office workers, they talk about, you know, if somebody keeps bothering you at your desk, you know, like you’re trying to get something done, and they bother you, get up and talk with them, engage them in whatever they’re talking about, but start walking them back to their desk, and before they realize it, they’re sitting back at their desk, and you go back to yours. I’ve actually done that with clients that are a little bit too intrusive into the inspection. I love it when my clients are with us. They’re pretty much always with us asking questions, but usually to a reasonable degree. I’ve had some that are just coming up with crazy scenarios and asking about, okay, well, how does this shutoff valve work? You know, what’s going on in the guts inside, I’m like, we have 30 more shutoff valves, we’re gonna, we’re gonna be here a long time if this guy keeps asking about shutoff valves. So what I do, is I stop what I’m doing, make note of where I was, and I answer their question, and I walk with them back to the agent, sometimes the agent’s with us, but sometimes they’re sitting upstairs. And before you know it, I’ve walked them back to the agent, and now for some reason, they turn to the agent, and they explain to them all their questions and how good of a job I’m doing. And they start talking, and I just go back to where I was. So if our clients are with us on the inspection, and they’re actually interfering with the inspection, like, I can’t, I can’t test this boiler because they’re just, they’re just all over me. Try that. Answer their question, stop what we’re doing, which is hard to do, and walk them back to the agent. It’ll give you a good, another 10 or 15 minutes of being able to focus before they start to come back, if they come back.
David Nyman
It beats crawling into a crawlspace or climbing up on the roof to get away from them.
Ian Robertson
I tell you what, I’ve done it before, I needed to make notes or write some stuff down. So I go up on the roof, and hey, there you go. I..one agent used to call attics, my, Ian’s happy time. Because that’s where I could get away and write stuff down. And, you know, just kind of actually complete some of my inspection sometimes with certain clients.
David Nyman
Nice.
Ian Robertson
So, this one is actually one of my favorite techniques. It’s one that I’ve always used, because I really just don’t know how to interact with people sometimes. And this makes it appear like you are a master of interacting with people. So what’s the, what’s our next one, David?
David Nyman
So, asking people about themselves and getting them to talk about their personal lives instead of asking you about yours. So just, you know, asking them questions and people, you know, they will just talk and talk. So as you keep asking them questions, they’ll give you more and more information without knowing that you haven’t given them anything in return.
Ian Robertson
Yep. That’s always been one of my favorites. I remember someone when I was young, telling me, I was having trouble interacting with other kids and stuff like that, again, me being me. And they said, talk about the other person. People love talking about themselves, and they don’t even realize they’re doing it. So I had been using this trick since I was a teenager, without ever realizing that this was actually a psychological model. I read an article on it about what it actually does, it creates a mirror effect in the person’s mind. They start to believe that you are just like them. And you’re not creating that appearance. You’re just saying, hey, David, you know, what kind of shows do you watch? Oh, you watch the Mandalorian. Oh, is that a good show? And then all sudden you’re starting to talk about the Mandalorian, you’re talking about your love of Star Wars. You’re talking about your family life, and we’re, I didn’t ask one prying question. We don’t get too personal like, hey, so what did the doctor tell you? You know? Just, we’re just asking some general questions. Yeah, exactly. We’re just asking some general questions. And it creates, I forget the exact psychological term, I’m not going to pretend to be educated enough to know what those mean. But it creates a mirroring effect in their mind. And they go, oh, man, I love Ian, we have some of the same interests, he’s always, he always listens, and this and that. And they trust you after that point. So this is…
David Nyman
Why not? Wait, are you telling me you don’t like the Mandalorian?
Ian Robertson
Tell me, tell me more about the Mandalorian, David. But this is extremely effective in several different ways. First of all, with agents. Agents in general tend to be a crowd of people that are used to being about themselves, to be perfectly frank. So they have signs with pictures of their face on it. They’re, they’re working with clients who are looking to them for advice, and they’re with them. And they, they just, they’re used to it being about about them a little bit. So it’s very natural for when you start talking about them that they start talking too because they’re usually even selling themselves. So they’re telling them about their qualifications. So when we meet with agents, one of the worst things that we can do at an office presentation, seminar, when we’re talking to them one on one, is talk about ourselves. So as a general sales rule, you always talk about the other person, until they get to the point where they realize they haven’t told me anything about them. Now they ask about you. It’s the perfect marketing situation. So we may want to talk about us. But it’s more important that they’re connected to us. So say we’re out to lunch with a real estate agent. Oh, yeah. Tell me about your kids, where you went to school, this and that, yada, yada. All of a sudden, they have that psychological mirroring effect. And you live in their brain rent, rent free. So when they go to refer somebody, they know nothing about you. I’ve had agents know absolutely nothing about me and refer me, because I didn’t tell them anything about me. I just showed up and talked about them. And they referred me. They’re like, oh, you’re gonna love Ian. I’m thinking in my head. Why? You don’t know.
David Nyman
Well, if there’s any agents out there that want to correct your preconceived notions about them, they can come on the show.
Ian Robertson
I’m not saying, I’m not saying they’re vain, I’m just saying, it’s either one of two scenarios, they’re used to selling themselves, so it’s easy for them to talk about themselves. Or number two, they’re so used to supporting psychologically their clients that they don’t ever get to talk about themselves, because their client, it’s all about them. So either one of those scenarios, it makes it very easy to use this technique with agents. And it’s just being a nice person, to be perfectly frank. Being a nice person is, you can’t fake any of that. You have to actually be genuine. Is..okay, tell me about it. And then remember things that they tell you. I have clients from 10, 20 years ago that I could tell you how old their kids are and where they grew up, and where they met their, you know, marriage mate, and all that other stuff. You actually have to care about it.
David Nyman
And you can’t even remember how old your own kids are.
Ian Robertson
What kids? Oh, that’s right. I have one. Somebody asked me the other day how old I was. And I told him the wrong age. So I can’t remember how old I am.
David Nyman
Yeah, I remember as a kid, my dad introduced me and my sister to someone, he got both our ages wrong. It was pretty funny. I didn’t tell him that. I had told him when we walked away from them. Dad, you got two years off on both of us.
Ian Robertson
That’s awesome. That’s real parenting, folks.
David Nyman
Yes, that’s real parenting.
Ian Robertson
That’s the real world.
David Nyman
I didn’t even have the heart to tell him that I wasn’t even his kid.
Ian Robertson
He only found out years later. But the other way that is very useful is, we have a script that we’ve actually published before, to close phone calls when people call us, especially our clients. So one of the things that we do when somebody, and this actually ties in with another point that we’ll be talking about later, which is a great sales point, but one of the things that we do is ask the client about their, themselves. So okay, yeah. You want to price on a house, on a home inspection. Great. Where’s the house located? Oh, yeah. Okay. If you don’t mind me asking, what brings you to the neighborhood? Oh, really? You work at the Technical Institute? What do you do? All of a sudden, 5, 10 minutes later, they’ve told us about our lives. But I’m going to break into that other point real quick because it ties in so well with this. It’s something about vested interest. So have you ever bought a meal that you didn’t like? And you ate it anyways? You powered through it. Because you say in your mind, I’ve already paid for it. I can’t let it go to waste. It’s the same thing when we’re talking with somebody. If they spend enough time with us, they get enough interest in us that they’re like, okay, well, this is the guy, I’m not going to do this on three different phone calls, even though that might not even be the scenario. That has been one of my best closing techniques ever. Because as you’re eating that meal that you don’t like you say, I already paid for this. But if you think about it logically, what’s the difference, you already spent the money. If you eat the meal, or you don’t eat the meal, what’s the difference? The money’s already gone. So you’re not saving money by eating, powering through that meal, you’re just doing it out of this sense of self- invested interest into something. It’s the same thing with a phone call. Every salesman in the world knows that if you spend a certain amount of time with them, that’s it. Matter of fact, I knew this real estate agent, she would have, there would be these five techniques that they would use, and I forget what she called them. But if she could get through all five, she had that sale. That was it. And it was like 95% effective, it was really cool. She had pennies on her desk, and she would flip over a penny each time that she would go through one of those, one of those steps. So it’s a sense of vested interest, if we can keep our potential client on the phone with us for at least 10 minutes, the likelihood of them calling someone else to schedule an inspection is very unlikely.
David Nyman
Especially if they think they’re gonna have to spend 10 minutes with that person too.
Ian Robertson
Yes, and especially if they’re not as interesting as I am.
David Nyman
Interesting. Yes, yes, yes.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, those are the two best sales techniques out there, in my opinion. Talk about just the other person, not being overly, you know, into their life. Just ask them, show personal interest. And then that vested interest on phone calls. Same thing with agents, they get vested interest with us. So when stuff comes up, maybe an inspection doesn’t go really well, the client’s upset, whatever, they still stick with us, because they’re like, I invested in this, I’ve already paid for my meal. So I’m gonna power through it. And that gives us a chance to turn that relationship around.
David Nyman
So you turn into a meal in that illustration?
Ian Robertson
I guess so. Yeah. If you were a meal, what would you be David? Swedish fish?
David Nyman
Lard. No, I think, I think it would be something candy wise. Yeah. Probably ice cream. That’s..90% of my diet is ice cream. So that’s probably what I’d turn into.
Ian Robertson
I’d be steak and Lagavulin. Yeah, makes sense. Right?
David Nyman
We’d make a great meal together. There’s another section of the podcast that needs to be cut out.
Ian Robertson
I don’t know if we can do our podcast together anymore. All right. So let’s hit one or two more of these. And then maybe we can save some of the rest of them for, for another podcast here. So what’s the next one we have, David?
David Nyman
So I did like this one, when you’re looking for specific information, like costs, because personally, I hate when you find something and you’re like, okay, where do I find out how much it’s costing you, like scrolling through pages, listening to, you know, some salesman drone, and you never get a number out. So this tip says, suggest something completely unreasonable. And they’re going to be very quick to tell you the exact price because they want to make sure you have it correct. So, you know, like, you know, saying, you know, $10, or something like that probably, right for all you, you have to offer? And they’re like, no, no, no, it’s $90.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, well, and going over the price is usually the better part of that technique. You know, if you know it’s a $10,000 AC system, I use this with contractors all the time. Matter of fact, I had to have a new AC system put in my house. And the part of the system that we were talking about was 10 grand, but he wouldn’t give me a solid price. So I’m like, okay, are we talking? Are we talking $500 or we talking $20,000? They were so ridiculous out of the wrenches like, oh, no, no, no, more like 10. I’m like okay, thank you. I use that with contractors when we’re dealing with them with mold remediation, or even after inspection sometimes, you know, it’ll be like, oh, yeah, I don’t know, it could be this or that. It helps pin them down on a little bit of a number. So throw out a ridiculous number. Something you know that’s way out of the scope of imagination. And they’ll be quick to give you the real number.
David Nyman
Yeah, and I think contractors are probably notorious for that because they don’t want to tie themselves down to a number which makes sense because you know, they, they can’t predict all their expenses and how difficult it’s going to be, but they can give you a ballpark if you just, you know, trick them into it.
Ian Robertson
Not trick but using psychology. It’s, it’s an, I forget there’s a term for it. It’s an anchoring reference. In other words, they’re worried about the number that they’re going to throw out at you. So you give them a safe reference. It’s nowhere near that ridiculous number. So it gives them a safe reference point. So..
David Nyman
Worst case scenario, they’d be like, yeah, that’s how much it is.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, exactly. Oh, 20 grand. Oh, no, nevermind.
David Nyman
Oh, he’s willing to pay that much.
Ian Robertson
Oh, yeah, you do have to be careful with that. This next one, I really do like this because it helps with nervous buyers. And sometimes even with a new agent that’s a little bit nervous. So as we go through our inspections, we start pointing out stuff. And let’s be honest, the average buyer nowadays is a little bit different than the average buyer maybe 20..20 years ago. They don’t know how to fix as much stuff. And everything seems intimidating. Oh, okay, the latch on this window’s broken, you might need a new latch. And we walk away just kind of passively, and they start freaking out like, do I get this on Amazon? Who puts this in? What size screw do I use? I don’t have a screwdriver, should I use a drill instead of a screwdriver? And things start rolling through their mind, the more and more we put on, especially with first time homebuyers, we start to notice that they get really, really anxious during the inspection. So if you want real estate agents to truly love you, you will use this technique. Instead of ignoring their anxiety or addressing it head on. Like I see, some home inspectors go. Don’t be nervous. There’s nothing to be nervous about, nothing to be nervous about. Ask them, are you getting a little nervous with the information? And then do it nonchalantly. Like do it as you’re typing on your phone making a note. You getting nervous about this? You alright? Oh, yeah. I’m totally nervous. Okay, now you’ve addressed it. And you say, yeah, I can see that. But you know, this is all part of owning a home. And then as we’re acting nonchalantly, what we’re doing, what we’re doing is, I had to look this one up too, of why it actually works. We engage their nervousness, their anxiety. And then it goes back to that proverb that we talked about, “an answer when mild turns away rage”, it also calms people down, the more mild we are talking about the things that they’re anxious about, tends to pull them out of the anxious state. And I also found it very helpful to give them an anchor point in that as well. Oh, yeah, I have a similar kind of window in my house. You know, it’s kind of a pain in the butt. But you know, you can order the part on Amazon, you know, you screw the new latch into the window in the existing holes, make sure you measure it first. You know, or, you know, this, this goes in the report, but I see this a lot on other homes, or this is common to the area. And even with big stuff that they need to get addressed. Oh, yeah, this is a big item. Are you nervous about this? Yeah, you know, a lot of people could be, but..and then you start talking about it more, and it calms people down. It’s very, very subtle. Do not, how do you say, do not be contrarian to their nervousness. Don’t say, don’t be nervous, but also don’t give into it, and be anxious about and now we’re like, look at this, this is terrible. And we start feeding off of them. Address it, ask them about it and to express themselves, and then no matter what, we stay calm and almost disengaged about it. So all the parents out there, we’ve done this with our children, right? They’ve been nervous about, maybe they didn’t want to go outside because you saw a raccoon in the yard or they’re nervous about going to school or nervous about a social situation. We play it off. Oh, yeah. oh, you’re nervous? And we kind of tickle them. Don’t tickle your clients. We kind of like, oh, yeah, it’ll be good.
David Nyman
I think tickling your clients is always the right solution.
Ian Robertson
But if you tickle your clients, you did not hear that here.
David Nyman
Disclaimer.
Ian Robertson
Basically, all we’re doing is offsetting it, we’re disengaging their anxiety. Ironically, this is actually what a dog trainer that we, we’ve, we watch, he does with the dogs. He engages their anxiety and then distracts them from it by acting like nothing’s wrong. And it takes an aggressive dog and calms him down. It’s, unfortunately that’s a terrible illustration. But it’s unfortunately how we work as humans. When somebody’s being calm about the same situation, it tends to calm us down. So if you really want to be the home inspector that agents really refer a lot, that’s really what’s going to do it. Oh, Ian makes the client so calm. Jay Wynn, who we have on the show, he’s a master of it, but I don’t think he actually knows it. Don’t tell him that he’s a master of it. But he never stops typing, like people start freaking out. And he looks up at him and goes, yeah, this making you a little bit nervous? And they go, yeah, isn’t it making you nervous? He goes, mmm, and he just keeps typing. By the end of the inspection, they’re just calm because he was being so calm about it. And they leave him a great review. And..just works.
David Nyman
Is that especially on inspections he does after he’s done the podcast episodes with you?
Ian Robertson
The Drinking With Jay episode.
David Nyman
He’s so calm about it, he actually fell asleep.
Ian Robertson
You know, we’re starting to get so many requests for, hey, I want to do a drinking episode. I’m like, I think I started something, not, not going to end up well.
David Nyman
Everyone’s in on that. Let’s change the title, from Inspector Toolbelt to Drinking With Inspector Toolbelt.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, exactly. So, we have a lot of other techniques that we could talk about. But maybe we’ll hold those off till another podcast. But these are some psychological, quote unquote, tricks that we could use in our everyday life as home inspectors. Take one of them, all of them, none of them. I’ve used these techniques. We have many, many more that we have here on a list that we’d like to share with you. But we’ll save that for another time. But David, thanks for being on the show again. And we’ll look forward to having you on another time.
David Nyman
Well, thank you. I enjoyed being with you very much. Nodding my head vigorously.
Ian Robertson
Yep. So David, you did, you did amazing. So hang on.
David Nyman
We talked about this, Ian.
Ian Robertson
I know how much you love the sound effects that I love to put in the podcast. Alright, stay tuned next time for Inspector Toolbelt Talk. Have a good day everyone.
Outro: On behalf of myself, Ian, and the entire ITB team, thank you for listening to this episode of inspector toolbelt talk. We also love hearing your feedback, so please drop us a line at [email protected].
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