SEAN GARVEY WALKS US THROUGH THE 6 PRINCIPLES OF INFLUENCING YOUR MARKET AND ULTIMATELY “MAKING THE SALE”. LISTEN IN AS SEAN SHARES HIS WISDOM!
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CHAPTER MARKERS
0:00
Home Inspection Sales and Marketing Principles
7:50
Building Trust Through Likeability and Reciprocity
17:06
Building Rapport and Making Connections
28:16
Utilizing Social Proof in Marketing
38:32
Building Authority Through Content Creation
44:35
Podcast Closing and App Promotion
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:
Ian Robertson
Hey, there IT crowd. Welcome back to Inspector Toolbelt Talk. And I’ve been really excited about this podcast. We have back on Sean Garvey from Dwell Inspect, and I just love having you on, Sean. I don’t know if you can tell how excited I am, but welcome back.
Sean Garvey
Thank you, Ian. I appreciate the opportunity to come back to be a repeat guest, and then I’m excited about it too. We’re gonna talk about one of my favorite things, which is the sales process and marketing.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, and you’re fantastic at that. And you know, it’s funny, whenever I’ll do a podcast, Sean will pick up on a point, and he’ll send me a message, and I mentioned a book, The Psychology of Persuasion. And then, like, two days later, all sudden, I get a message, and Sean goes, I read that book. And of course, Sean read that book, like Sean reads. And we just had some interesting text messages back and forth. And I’ve been really excited to talk to you about sales principles, not only sales, but closing. And I liked how youmentioned that when you brought up this idea, because we all like to talk about sales, but we don’t always talk about the closing part. So we need to get to the part where we close, and then know how to close. And it’s all one big linear item.
Sean Garvey
100%. If you can’t close, then you can’t do the inspection. And you have to believe, I hope, that everybody believes that they’re the best person for the inspection, and so they have to convey that message to their prospective client. Otherwise you don’t get that opportunity. Somebody else gets that opportunity. And I love that you mentioned this book. I’ve given it away a couple of times. I read it probably, probably 10 years ago, and so I hadn’t remembered the details of it, and when you message it, or when you did the little podcast about it,I was, not the little podcast, the shorter podcast about it. I didn’t want to diminish your podcast.
Sean Garvey
The wee podcast.
Sean Garvey
When you mentioned that I was excited because I hadn’t read it a while and I was due for a reread, you asked me to talk about it, and Icouldn’t find it, and it’s because I was using it as a mouse pad on my desk. So I was, I was reading it through osmosis with my mouse on the, on the book, but now you’ve inspired me to reread it and dig back into the principles of it. So thank you.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, no, thank you. And it’s, it’s a, really a great book in it. We’re not going to do like a book review, but we’re going to apply this to the home inspection industry. But there’s six basic principles that we’ve talked about on this show in various parts, but never quite nailed down like this, that basically apply to just about any business, but especially to us. And just quickly, I’ll mention what they are before wetalk about them. But, and I always have problem with this word reciprocity, and I know I say that wrong every time, commitment and consistency, social proof, authority, liking and scarcity, I want to talk about scarcity first, because that’s always been my favorite. I never got busier in my business than when I went down to four and a half days a week.
Sean Garvey
Interesting.
Ian Robertson
There was people waiting three weeks for us when other home inspectors couldn’t find work. And I remember I was just starting out. I was like, two and a half years in maybe three, and I’m like, why is my work booming? And then agents were messaging me, hey, you must be the busiest home inspector in the in the capital district. And this and that, I’m like, all I did was took a half day off, you know? But then I noticed that too. When we took out weekends, people are like, Oh, you have to book him during the week. He won’t work weekends. I call it the McRib principle. He says it better in the book, but I call it the McRib principle, people lining outside McDonald’s for this weird barbecue, greasy piece of processed meat on the bun, waiting years for it to happen. And it’s just scarcity. When something is less available.
Sean Garvey
They’re all tied together. One of the other, I don’t remember exactly. it may have been in the book or in a podcast that I heard too, but the first iPhone that came out, people were standing in line for it, and a lady traded something like a Rolex, something really expensive, just to move up two spots, just so that she could guarantee that she got it. And it’s a really interesting principle. They’re obviously all tied together. But the truth is, people want what they can’t have. You can see it in sneaker culture, baseball cards, lots of things that are collectible. You know, if it’s rare, for example, a Mickey Mantle rookie card, people are willing to pay a lot of money for it.
Ian Robertson
Yeah. And that rarity is often created, so like De Beers, people don’t realize this always, but the reason the diamond is expensive is not the actual scarcity, but it’s the amount of diamonds that De Beers allows to be on the market. So they have a stockpile of diamonds, and if they release them on the market, diamonds would not be worth as much. It’s kind of an interesting thing if you ever want to look it up, if you’ve never heard of it before, but they create their own scarcity to keep their product valuable.
Sean Garvey
Isn’t that wild?
Ian Robertson
So we as home inspectors sometimes are like, we’ll put out these desperate messages, hey, we have five availabilities this weekend. We’ll work evenings and we’ll work in the mornings. You know that doesn’t create scarcity. That creates a feeling of desperation. And I always thought that was a really great, it’s a terrible thing that De Beers does, but it’s a great principle for us to learn from. You know, sometimes we’re over, over, eager to expand our schedule.
Sean Garvey
And Ian, what’s that? What’s that usually coupled with too, right? Where you have X amount of time, the inspector usually couples that with a reduction in price, right? So they add a discount and they’re available. So psychologically, that plays a double edged sword, right? One that their time is not necessarily valued enough, and that they’re willing to do a discount on it. And don’t get me wrong, especially when I was first starting, I probably would have done an inspection for $35 just to get out there. But as that demand increases, the scarcity or the availability reduces, both of those things should couple together.
Ian Robertson
Beautifully said, I like the point about the discount, because then we we take away the scarcity and add the desperation to it. And what we’re talking about is the Psychology of Persuasion. We really lose all bargaining ability with a client hiring us when we when we take out our own footing.
Sean Garvey
Yeah.
Ian Robertson
Yeah. It’s kind of like, kind of like, going in to buy a car, where we walk in we’re like, I’m desperate. I don’t have a car and have to be to work tomorrow. We’re pretty much kind of ruining our negotiating ability. We change the psychology.
Sean Garvey
Here’s that 1996 Civic for $25,000, 22% interest. That’s what you’re gonna get.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, exactly, yeah. So as soon as I read that scarcity one, that’s the one that really stuck in my mind, because I still remember that when I cut out weekends, schedule filled up. When I took out Friday afternoons, just so I could have some time to breathe for a short time, my schedule went three weeks out, you know, with two week contingencies, having three week out schedule, you know, people were making changes, and it was just a change in psychology. I didn’t add on new service. It’s not like in a two week period that I, you know, added on a new certification or something amazing. I just changed people’s perception on accident. And it just made sense.
Sean Garvey
I think it’s totally realistic. You know, the most inspections I’ve ever done in a week is 17 or 18, and that’s, that’s because I was afraid to say no. And that’s the opposite of scarcity, that’s being available. And so being afraid to say no, you risk, or you have the idea in your head that if you don’t service this person, they may go elsewhere, right? And that’s, that’s a reasonable risk. But then there’s the other side of it is, is that if you’re not available, like you’ve mentioned a couple times, if you’re not available, people want what they can’t have, but it has to be coupled. It has to be coupled with all five of the other six principles, because they all layer through there and create a really, really powerful message as they go through. And it seems like we’re kind of tending towards a little bit of a book review, but I think it’s, it’s such an important, it’s such an important book that it kind of deserves that attention.
Ian Robertson
Let’s do it.
Sean Garvey
Because you can’t have one without the other. So you can’t just say, hey, I’m not available. I only work Mondays. Then people are going to go find somebody else. But you have to have those layers of demand, which include reciprocity, which is just the simple act of giving somebody something. It’s also called the Franklin effect. We may have talked about it the last time. I bring it up a lot, but it’s the ability for people to feel obligated to you when you give them something. Did I say that, right?
Ian Robertson
Yeah.
Sean Garvey
For example, like we always coach our team, if anybody ever offers you water, they should accept it. Even if you have a jug of water, if you just had water, if you have iced tea, you don’t want it, just accept it, put it in your bag and then drink it later. You’ll take it out sometime. They feel better helping you out. I do the same thing. The FedEx person comes and they drop off one of the packages from Amazon or UPS person, and I can’t wait to give them a bottle of water, because it makes me feel good. Also makes them feel good too. So there are, there are obligations of that in reciprocity. So it’s super important for that one too. In our business, something really, really simple could just be, you know, a few maintenance tips on a property, or the best AC air filters to put on into the house too. Because we have all this knowledge about the house, we could share it. Just share a little bit of it.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, that was his first principle, the reciprocity. And you brought it out really well. It’s funny that I was laughing in my head as you were talking about the bottle of water, because in the back of my work vehicle, I always brought a giant like packages and packages of water that I get from Walmart. So when everybody showed up on a hot day, everybody got a bottle of water, the clients, the agents, the seller, if they were there, somebody walking down the road. But small acts of giving create a psychological effect, of owing somebody something, and that creates connection. Exactly none of us. I don’t know if anybody’s like me or if you’re like me, Sean, but somebody gives me something. I feel this like horrible feeling inside of I need to, I need to do something to show niceness back to them. I don’t know if it’s some childhood trauma, but it’s a natural thing, and that’s really hard to do sometimes when we’re. Or on a phone call, because that’s where everything really starts. On a phone call or in an email or a text message, that’s usually where the lead begins with us and our sales process. If you don’t mind me asking, how do you find a way to give to the client, the potential client, so that they feel that feeling of obligation, which ultimately makes them more likely to hire you?
Sean Garvey
Well, that’s great question. One of the things I learned from the Inspector Toolbelt podcast is one of the things that you can give them is time.
Ian Robertson
Yeah.
Sean Garvey
There’s a thought of efficiency on phone calls. If you have multiple calls coming in, you want to get them in and booked and onto the next one right away. But these people are making a major, major life decision. They’re going to buy a house, they’re going to spend a lot of money, and there’s a fair bit of risk that they, or unknown, risk that they don’t know about, and they’re asking you to help to explain that, what that risk might be. And so the more time that you can spend with them, the more immediate of a connection that you can have with that person. And that’s simply just achieved by asking questions, finding out what’s important to them, finding out about their last experiences. And quite frankly, if you’re in an attic when you’re answering phone calls, that’s pretty hard to do, so you have to separate that element of scheduling and inspections as you’re creating your business.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, very well said, time is always one of the best things that we can give and that does create a feeling of, as we’ve said on the podcast before, like, why would I call anywhere else? This guy’s already taking care of me. My favorite thing to create, uh, reciprocity.
Sean Garvey
We’ll get it.
Ian Robertson
I feel like, I feel like I’m a toddler learning how to talk. It’s uh, like that other word, similarly, ever try to say that in the middle of a sentence and it never happens. But I always try to find out what they’re concerned with about the house. Yeah? So the way that happens is they’re like, oh well, you know, it’s a basement. I’ve never had a basement before. I’m from, you know, Arizona, you know, or Florida. I’ve never had a basement. Oh well, yeah, let me, let me tell you a couple of pointers. Make sure you get a dehumidifier. Look out for these things, you know, and it gives you extra living space, potentially, as long as you waterproof it. All of a sudden, I’ve just given them a gift, a gift of knowledge of something that. And the best is when they say, nobody’s ever explained that to me before. Thank you. If they say that, that deal is pretty well sealed, yeah, hooked, yeah, hooked, and just hooked, and sorry, no, no, no, they’re hooked. But it really just creates a human connection, as you put it before, and that’s really what we’re looking for.
Sean Garvey
Yeah, yeah. I was gonna chime in and say that mine is mortar. I have a tough time saying that my, my word that I fumble. I always want to say motor. But yeah, I mean that, that entirely and totally ties in to to the ability to give somebody and they just want to feel important. Everybody wants to feel important. They don’t want to feel like they’ve run through a number of boxes being checked, and they want to call in and tell their story and they’re happy to schedule with somebody that, that they like, which is actually happens to be the fifth principle. We’re jumping ahead a little bit. That’s okay, but people are more persuaded by those they like. I bartended for a long time in a beach, a tourist beach bar in Hawaii, and I learned from the bartenders there to reach over the bar top and shake their hands of a tourist they may never see again and introduce themselves. And what they realized is in the tipping culture that we have in the United States, if, if your client or your customer likes you, they’re more willing to give you bigger tips, which is the name of the game when you’re bartending and working. And so it carries through. People are more persuaded by those they like, people are more willing to work with companies that they like.
Ian Robertson
Yeah.
Sean Garvey
Whether it’s a cultural connection, whether it’s a personal connection or interpersonal connection, whether it’s a communication issue, all of those play into the psychology of the client or the customer making that sales purchase.
Ian Robertson
And that’s well said, there was actually a documentary I was watching recently, and it says, showed how businesses in the 80s built up trust campaigns. So they would go on whatever bandwagon people cared about at the time. And in the 80s and 90s, it was pushing for green initiatives and recycling. And so all of these companies that were actually creating the garbage were joining all these recycling initiatives. It brought out to how Amazon did that early on, and even though they did all these initiatives, they ended up increasing their carbon footprint by over 40% that year that they started the initiatives. But it didn’t matter to their sales. It increased their sales because they were connecting with people and people like them better because of the appearance they put forth. Now that’s a that’s a manipulation of these principles that we’re talking about. We really just want to be genuine. But to be likable doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re a likable person, because, let’s be honest, some of us are not as likable as others. If we have some self-awareness we know, but there are little things we can do to make people like us a little bit more. My HVAC guy, he’s probably actually not that great. I found out the other day. I’m like, all right, you got some stuff, right. But he’s so likable, like he came down in my basement. He remembered my expansion tank on my heating unit. I messaged him. He goes, it’s that expansion tank. I’m sorry, Ian, he used my name. And he goes, I’ll get you in. And it was longer than I expected, but he comes down. He goes, yeah, I knew was that expansion tank. I made a note of it. Are you still making wine? I’m like, yeah, here’s a couple of bottles. I’m like, man, he’s not that likable or good at his job, but I like him, and he’s got me. I’m like, okay, let’s do this. But it’s important, there’s, likableness equates to trust. We’re going to trust people that we like.
Sean Garvey
Yeah.
Ian Robertson
How do you do that for your clients, especially on a phone call or when your client trying to close the deal, or on an inspection, or in any scope of the imagination. How do you create that likableness?
Sean Garvey
Well, I would say in, I would say in the terms of an inbound phone call, is probably a little bit different. One thing we certainly, and that’s going back to spending a fair bit of time about it, but we ask them questions about that. Are not about the inspection too. Where are you moving from? Is this their first house? We’re trying to get to learn about them. We’re also trying to get to learn about their personality too. So we could see if they’re like a type A type personality, or if they’re very easy going in that personality as well. So getting to know about people’s experience on the phone call helps with the likeability of it also having a professional nature. You know, thank you for calling the same way every time. Thank you for calling Dwell Inspect, this is Sean, how may I help you? Those things matter, except for if, let’s say it’s an agent that’s calling in, they’ve called in three or four times, then we could shift into that, hey, Ian, nice to hear from you. How can we help you today, and then it creates that familial or friendly connection. One thing you mentioned, and we did definitely talk about this last time, is people love to hear their name, and that’s one of the core principles of how to win friends and influence people. That’s so easy to do, and there’s so many cues that you can do that you write the person’s name, you look at their order, whenever software you’re using, and when they’re when you have that you just mentioned it, 3, 4, 5, times, and they’re gonna like you. You like him because he asked about your wine making, and he ends up doing a bad job fixing the AC, but still walking out with a couple of bottles of wine. He’s winning.
Sean Garvey
You made that connection, and once you’ve made that connection, you’re unlikely to shift that connection unless he makes a major blunder, but you’re always going to give him the opportunity to fix himself, too. When you’re on the inspection, it’s the same thing. We have a couple questions that we definitely ask, because we want to make a conversation. Where are you moving from? Do you know the area? Here’s some great restaurant recommendations in the area. Are your kids in high school or in the area, that type of stuff? Are you playing sports? Who knows? Just questions to get the ball rolling, and once you have the ball rolling, then you could find out more about the person. Maybe they’re moving from Tennessee and you have a buddy that lives in Tennessee and loves it, who knows, but just keep asking those questions to keep the ball rolling, and they’re going to end up liking you. But you also have to listen and let them talk. That’s really the key.
Ian Robertson
Yes.
Ian Robertson
And that’s the beautiful point. Let them talk. That’s something I’ve always had trouble with. My team makes fun of me. I talk too much but, but I wrote down a couple of things as you were talking. I like the list of restaurants, that’s a, that’s a good one, like, oh man, you know, right down the, right down the road from here is a great steakhouse. Me and my wife like it, you know, something that’s unique to them. Maybe not necessarily a piece of paper. But I also wrote down there was an interesting thing that, because sometimes we think about the client. But we’re also whether people like to hear this or not. We’re courting an agent too. There’s a home inspector in my area that he’s into dog shelters and adopting dogs and things like that, and he does really nice job with it, but he brings dog treats.
Sean Garvey
Oh, really?
Ian Robertson
So, oh, do you have dogs? Oh, here, here’s dog treats. It has his little logo on the bag, gives it to the agents, gives it to the clients, leaves it with the sellers, is there a dog on site. He loves dogs. He gives the treats to the sellers, for the dogs, whatever, it’s it’s a great way of combining the first principle reciprocity, with liking. Those two things really go hand in hand. If I’m an agent and somebody hands me, you know, dog treats for my dog, I’m gonna have this weird little feeling of, I want to give back to him. And I kind of like him. He took care of my dog. I love my dog. Yeah, it’s, those are good principles. I wrote down the restaurant thing, though. That’s, that’s a good one, because they’re simple, easy to do.
Sean Garvey
The question is, is, does he, call them cat treats if he finds out they like cats, right?
Ian Robertson
Yeah, I’ll have to ask him that, that’s a good one. He might need to carry cat treats.
Sean Garvey
Or he reached in the bag, grabs out the other thing of dog treats and hands them the cat treats.
Ian Robertson
Oh, if he’s listening, he knows who he is. Hi, John. Think of having cat treats. See, see how that works for you. I’d like to hear, but I’ve seen comments on Facebook and stuff in the local area of they’re like, oh, look, I just got dog treats from John and all that. You know, it’s so simple, and it’s nice. It’s a, we call it a marketing anchor, but it’s really just a nice way to combine those two principles.
Sean Garvey
Oh I think it’s such a great idea, and it’s low cost, right? I would assume that it’s low cost.
Ian Robertson
Oh, yeah.
Sean Garvey
But it also it’s, people want to like you. People want to enjoy their the service that they got, and you have to work real hard not to like them. But if you, if you find a way to kind of align with their principles, and whether they’re cat people or dog people or whatever, but to give a gift for them to give to other people, that’s an instant connection. You call it an anchor or a hook, but it does a really, really great job of making that connection. They’re going to want to like you. That’s great.
Ian Robertson
Yeha, you know, there’s an added bonus too, because we’re not infallible. I don’t know if you’ve ever had an experience like this. I totally popped a GFCI in a house and the freezer. It was on the same, same line as the freezer. Classic home inspector goof up, you know, you don’t know, it’s outlets down in the basement, and pops it up in the in the garage where the freezer is. Fortunately, the sellers, they, they let the agent know before anything really melted, I was able to go over. Said, hey, I’ll be right there. And I popped the break back on. Everything was okay. Not a single person got mad at me. Yeah, in fact, the sellers thanked me, and they’re like, you seem so nice. We wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. And the buyer and seller agent, they’re like, isn’t Ian awesome? He went over there and and turned the GFCI back on. And the buyers were like, oh, he is awesome. And I’m looking at this email chain. I’m like, I kind of doofed up, but everybody’s like, crushing on me here. It’s, you know, it’s, but I had built a rapport with them in that two hour period where they liked me. And so when stuff happens, when you know something goes wrong, people will be more apt to defend you. They’re like that doesn’t sound like so and so, that doesn’t sound like Sean. Sean would never do that, and Sean would come back and fix it, whereas if we were some kind of just show up, do our inspectioncold and walk away, people would curse our name a lot easier. Have you ever had a situation where people defended you like that?
Sean Garvey
100%. And you actually bring up a really interesting point that a lot of people forget about when they’re trying to build their businesses. We really have four opportunities to impress four different parties. You have the buyers, the buyer’s agent, the sellers, and the seller’s agent, and you’re in the seller’s home for three or four hours. So you have a huge opportunity to get them to like you. We do things a little bit differently. We often start our inspection in the kitchen. The sole purpose for that is that we want to give the seller the opportunity to get to know our process, to get to like us, and to let their guard down a little bit. Home inspections are really intrusive, really, really intrusive. We’re in people’s homes, which is their castle. We’re in their closets. We’re in their, we’re running their sinks. We’re finding problems that are, it’s an awkward moment, and so you need to bring that guard down as fast as you can to get them to like you. And the same thing you do that, you’re setting up. You’re telling themwhat’s going on. You’re setting your expectations. You’re in the kitchen so that they can see that you’re human. And you’re walking through and you’re getting to know them. Where are you moving to, do you have any good restaurants you like in the neighborhood? You have that type of stuff? Just ask them questions and create quick connections.
Ian Robertson
That’s a beautiful point.
Sean Garvey
And yes, I’ve, without a doubt, I’ve spent more time in my life looking and tripping GFCIs than I should, than any human should, and it’s always the one you can’t find that, that’s the problem, of course.
Ian Robertson
Oh, that’s the worst when you can’t find it, and and then you curse the builder’s name when you find it. You’re like, why in the world would it be here? Like, this makes no sense. Yeah, yeah, that’s the bane of the existence of a home inspector but totally, I really like that, starting in the kitchen, I always, I always went right to the basement. The sellers aren’t always, most of the time, aren’t home when we do an inspection in my area. But I really like that, even if it’s just the buyers, you know, humanize it. The kitchen’s where people gather, where they connect naturally. So it puts you in a different light. That’s interesting. Have to remember that one. How about the commitment and consistency? That was, that was an important one, strive to remain consistent with our previous commitments and behaviors. What does that mean to you?
Sean Garvey
That one is key on a number of levels, but most specifically on the inbound call, when people are looking, are interviewing you for a job, because that’s what an inbound call is, is a job interview. And so in there, you’re just trying to get them to commit to one thing, one small thing. So old sales technique is to start them to get to saying yes, and the faster you get them to say yes, the more likely you are to get a commitment. The other element of that is that, so you just want them to book a home inspection right. And now you have upsells. I think you have septic inspection, sewer scopes, mold, radon, termite, pool, keep going down the list, whatever exists in there. The first thing you want to do, especially if they’re undecided, is to get them to commit or say yes to one little thing, which is the home inspection. Take that opportunity later to explain the other services that you could provide to them. If you hit them with, I don’t know, a $2,500 bill when you’ve added up all the other stuff, they’re likely to do their natural reaction, which is, pull back. If they pull back, you’ve lost your chance at them. So if you’ve commit, got them to commit to just the home inspection, you can add all the other stuff later if they want it.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, that’s a really great principle. My favorite add on, I like to save some add ons to on site, were almost always radon because we’re already there and, you know, the agent staying there, we’re in the basement doing the review. And it’s like, okay, you know, so just confirm you don’t want radon. Okay, let’s put radon on, I trust you now, or sewer scope, you know, we’re already there. This kind of looks a little sketchy, and you know, it’s better to add on later on, even the weeks up to or days up to the inspection rather. I always found that a couple things that I, worked for me were, when I was talking to people. I would ask them to go to my website while I talk to them. Yeah, and it’s, it’s a very, very micro version of this principle. So now they’re on my website. I’m like, look down halfway through the page, and you’ll see what we inspect. And then I’m saying the same thing I would have said anyways. And sometimes I’ll be like, hey, you know that question you have, I’m on the road. Would you mind filling out this contact form right there next to that section, and just say, hey, Ian, this is Joe. My question was this, I’ll get it right on my phone. I’ll get right back to you. I was combining two principles with that. Number one, finding a reason for follow up, but that’s a different principle, outside of what we’re talking about. But the other thing was, now I’ve obligated him. He’s already asked a question, he’s filled something out. And the principle is, like getting someone to sign a petition, if you can get someone to sign a petition for the, for what they care about, the next thing you’ve asked them for, you’re likely going to get a yes for, you have to be so you know, if you want something bigger, like, well, now do you want to demonstrate with us? Better than that 50/50 shot that they’re going to say yes at that point because they already signed a petition. So there’s lots of ways to apply that. If you found any ways that work or don’t work for you otherwise?
Sean Garvey
Yeah. I mean, what you just said was really impressive, too. I just had a wow moment on it right? Like they’ve already probably gone and looked at your Google reviews to validate you. They’ve gone to your website and they’ve gone, oh, he’s got a great website. He should start a website making business..little plug for you. And then the other element, but then you’re bringing them back to the website so that they can have something relatively, or at least digitally tangible, so that they can read it while you’re reading. And that was like a huge wow moment when I heard that. So that’s really impressive. Yeah. I mean, it’s the other element too. Is, is that once you where you were speaking of once you get them to say yes for something small, they feel socially obligated, like it’s the, it’s the air filter when you’re getting your oil change right, yeah, you’re, you pay the 50 bucks to get the the oil changed, and they offer the air filter for 50 bucks, but you’re already there, so you’re just gonna say, sure. Do it. Otherwise, the other, the other obstacle, is to go somewhere else down the street and and pay $42 for the same air filter, or whatever it is. So you’re just trying to get people to say yes, and you’re setting all those personal hooks lining up all the other principles for it.
Ian Robertson
That was the best illustration of that principle, was the upsell of the air filter when you get your oil changed. Yeah, they’re using the same principle, but you already said yes to everything else, we’re here. And even when they bring out the air filter, they’re just like, it doesn’t look that bad, but they’re already there. Just say yes. He said yes to everything else.
Sean Garvey
They all look bad, every time they pull them out.
Ian Robertson
Yeah. When have you seen a clean air filter?
Sean Garvey
They’re white. Of course they’re gonna come out and look dirty.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, exactly. Man, I’m gonna steal that one. That was really great. Yeah, and you actually touched on the third principle, which is social proof. And this is one that our industry is very familiar with, but being familiar with a car doesn’t necessarily mean we know how all the inner workings work. How many of us have taken apart a fuel injector or actually know how our transmission works and all the gears and everything inside. Just because we know it exists and it’s important doesn’t mean we understand it. So what’s social proof, Sean?
Sean Garvey
Social proof is where you’re looking towards others to validate your purchasing decision. There’s so many different avenues with it, whether it’s, whether your friend just got a car. So that tells me that it’s a good car. So I want that car, whether you go to the website and people have packages or bundles, whatever you’re calling them, and you have the low, middle, and then the high value package, and the middle one says most popular, if you go to any software service website, they basically all have that principle, and the most popular one is the most popular decision. So that’s the one I should choose. Or even at restaurants where they box the one they want you to buy. So whether the restaurant I worked in, the fish tacos were always boxed and that’s what they wanted to buy because they were good, so social proof is, is using that, those techniques, testimonials, reviews, even other endorsements, to help you, to help other people feel good about their decision to use you or to work with your business. I should say.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, that’s a fantastic overview of it. I know I do that on Amazon all the time. When I see most purchased, that’s the first one I go to. It’s got a little banner on it. Why is this the most purchased, you know? And I’ll still read the reviews and stuff. But I think most of us are too reductive with this principle. We know we need social proof, and they so we say, well, I have lots of reviews. That is a big part of it, but it’s not the only part of it. I still find that testimonials aren’t completely dead, like years ago, you’d have testimonials. Somebody writes you a testimonial, write it on a piece of paper. I’d have them scribble it on a sticky note, if I could, and then I would just transfer it to a digital and take a picture of it to make sure that I could verify that it was and all this stuff. But people still care about that. They care about reviews, but they also care about their peers. And one thing that has always brought me work is forums. And I still find myself in various various versions of my businesses, on forums like Reddit, local forums, like there’s one around here, where everybody does certain things in a certain city, and so they’re always talking about who’s the best and where to go to eat and who to hire, those forums are extremely popular. Have you noticed yourself for, is that big in your area or no?
Ian Robertson
It might be big. We haven’t specifically used forums in that respect. I mean, maybe a little bit on Reddit, something to that extent. But, you know, I don’t specifically know. We haven’t been able to track any specific business as a result of it, so that’s an interesting avenue. Thank you for sharing that.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, it’s hard to track. It really is, and it takes a little bit of cyber stalking. But like, Reddit is the one I’ll just mention, because it’s one of the bigger ones. But sometimes I’ll find threads, or you can start threads, and you don’t want to be a weirdo about it, but like, hey, who’s the best home inspector? And all sudden, five comments down, we’re advertising ourselves. We want to be natural about it, but we can start talking about home inspections. You know, if we’re in Phoenix, can say, hey, you know, does anybody find that there’s a lot of termites lately in the Phoenix area? You know, we’re home inspectors, and we’re looking to just see if everybody’s, if anybody else has noticed this, because we’ve noticed it a lot. Now we’re it becomes social proof. People start interacting with us. They say, oh, I used you guys years ago. You did a great job. You actually found our termite issue, or whatever it happens to be. Some of those other avenues can be more reliable than Google reviews. I was reading an article not long ago about, how is it Gen alpha or Gen Z, I forget the early 20s people, they’re starting to rely less on Google reviews. And even young, younger millennials, which in their early 30s, they’re starting to say, that’s not really our big thing. You know, when they see 1,000 five star reviews. They’re kind of like, okay, that’s good. What else is out there?
Sean Garvey
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, yeah. Actually, now that you, it sparked some occurrences, but it was a little bit ago. But Nextdoor is a good one too.
Ian Robertson
Nextdoor.
Sean Garvey
Especially in new build communities, usually around the 11 month or one year warranty, 11 month inspection, one year warranty, whatever you want to call it, but it’s a total social proof. Hey, does anybody have a good inspector that’s coming up or, hey, I use these guys. You should use them too. And that’s the other element of social proof is, is I’ve got a guy, he’s awesome. You should use them.
Ian Robertson
Yeah.
Sean Garvey
It’s the same, you know, it’s the same exact reason, on a larger scale, we don’t have these budgets. But why sports celebrities are connected with brands? Because if that sports celebrity, I couldn’t think of one at the moment. Michael Jordan uses it. It’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me, right?
Ian Robertson
Yeah, man, that’s perfect. I forgot about Nextdoor and that is actually a really good forum. And there’s other ones too. And obviously this is encompassing of social media, and that’s why we use different social media for different age groups. Facebook is not that, Facebook is still big. It’s important for SEO too, but more importantly, it’s the 40 and up club. You know, they’re buying their second home, or they’re moving away, downsizing. You know, if you’re sixty-five years old and retiring, you’re going to be using that to ask people hey, you know who’s a good home inspector. TikTok is going to be for the younger crowd, the 20 to 30 years old, and 30 to 40 is going to be something like Instagram, which is less social of the social media, but all of that’s really important to have people behind you. Join local groups. I love doing that, especially on Facebook. I belong to all the little local groups in the area, and I’ll talk about home inspector things, and I’ll talk about, you know, somebody has a question, I’ll answer it again. You just gotta avoid being a bit creeper about it, like you don’t pretend to be somebody else. Everybody can smell that from a mile away. You pretend to be John Doe from down the road. And you really just try to gorilla market home inspections, like, just home inspector, if it’s worth it to you. This is what I found. You know, two streets down from you, it’s like, oh, thank you, you know, yeah, give them something. And now there’s social proof, you know, yeah.
Sean Garvey
And to piggyback off that in social media too, you know, there are so many different avenues of social media that are underutilized. One, one light bulb moment I had from social media was somebody told me that when they go to out of town and they’re looking for a restaurant, typically I’d go to Yelp. I’d go to Yelp and read some of the reviews and see who has all the high ratings and five stars, look for social proof in that avenue. They said that they now go to Instagram, look up restaurants in the area, look at the plates that are photographed on there, and by the, by the influence that are on there, and they make their decision based on that. So it’s slightly younger generation than me is using, is using social proof through esthetic pictures in there. I thought that was really interesting. And so same thing occurs with home inspectors in different avenues too, right? Like there are, you can use TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Yelp, what else did you say?
Ian Robertson
Facebook and Tiktok? You already mentioned those, though, yeah.
Sean Garvey
Oh, Reddit.
Ian Robertson
Reddit, that’s right.
Sean Garvey
You can use all of those all the way down the chain, but they all have different uses and different target audience, audiences. So that element of social proof to get that message out there is going to be become more challenging as you’re talking to different audiences.
Ian Robertson
I knew I was excited about this podcast for a reason. You’ve already given me three things that I’ve written down for me, so thank you for that. I didn’t know people were using Instagram like that. Then I’m going to try that for a restaurant, just to see how that works, yeah.
Sean Garvey
I mean, it was, you’re looking with your eyes, right? You eat with your eyes, so you’re looking through there. But to me, like I never even thought that that was feasible. When they brought that up, it just opened the eyes of possibility for the different avenues that you may be maybe trending.
Ian Robertson
Yeah. Oh, that’s awesome. And our last principle, authority. So basically, the principle is people are more likely to follow the lead of perceived experts or authority figures. So how do you create authority, Sean, what’s your way of doing that?
Sean Garvey
Yeah, there’s a couple different avenues. One, which one thing inspectors are really good at is becoming really knowledgeable about their craft. I think I know that we’re an industry of integrity. People don’t get into this because they don’t want to do a good inspection. People get into this for a certain reason where they want to protect somebody or something happened to them and they want to protect the next person. So it’s, it’s really a noble profession. I’ve always believed that, and so we become, typically really good at doing inspections and gather a wealth of information. The object or the challenge that presents beyond that is to present that to the potential client, and so to get in front of people to do that. So authority is shared by, you know, in the past, it would be a book, writing a book, but now we can do blogs. You can do blogs on your website. You can display that social proof on the internet. You can do it on Instagram, TikTok, or even Facebook, whatever your target demographic is. And that could be done by writing. It could also be done by pictures with captions, and it can also be done with video too. You have all three of those sources or ability to do that on the internet itself. Podcasts are a great social proof. I think podcasts are the new book. It allows you to become authority, and people look up to that. If you have an hour of intelligent conversation, people think that you’re an authority on there. I don’t know. I’m drawing a blank. I’m out.
Ian Robertson
Those are all fantastic. Those were all the points that, that I had. Podcasting, I’ve always said, if a home inspector can actually get out there and podcast, don’t try to be famous, it’s basically painting you as an authority. So if I look you up, I’m like, hey, you know, what about Sean at Dwell Inspect? And I’ve actually seen and heard your podcast, Sean, so it automatically, when I first asked you to be on the podcast. I’m like, this guy knows his stuff. He’s an authority. And you do know your stuff, but you were able to present it in a way that everybody knows that you knew your stuff. So you become an authority on it. Blogs. Blogs are funny. Blogs are actually we’re going to do a podcast on optimizing your website for chatGPT coming up. And blogging has actually become even more important, interestingly, but it’s more important for validity. In my opinion. If I go to somebody’s website and they have a blog post every month, I don’t read it. I don’t read my dentist blog, I don’t read my mechanics blog, but that they have it, I’m like, whoa, oh, they write something every month. They’re really involved. They know their stuff. Little things like that are the bricks that build the castle of our authority. It’s not doing one thing or the other, and then six months later, like that, nothing came out of it. They’re all bricks we build our authority over time with a lot of different things.
Sean Garvey
That’s great description.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, I mean, it is what it is, you describe the bricks, and I do like the video one. That really is important. And I’ve seen videos with your with your lead inspector in them too. Well done. Is he gonna go viral and, you know, represent Nike here in six months? No, but I don’t think he cares. Yeah, maybe he will. Yeah, he starts having more Nikes in the videos. Yeah? But, you know, if I’m a home buyer and I’m watching him, they’re informative, they’re just long enough to be informative, but not so long that I stopped watching it, and they’re on real inspections. It gives me authority and it gives me confidence in them, yeah? And they’re, they’re easy to do. What is it? 30 seconds to 60 seconds? That’s what, yeah. That’s what most of us shoot for. That’s a lot of authority. Yeah, yeah.
Sean Garvey
Andrew does a great job with that. You want to keep it about under a minute. That way you can hit all all platforms, YouTube shorts being under a minute, the others have longer, but then you only have to do one, and you don’t have to make edits from it. And then you want to grab people’s attention. People’s attention within the first couple seconds. We’re certainly not perfect at it, but we’re always trying to get a little bit better on it. That’s the opposite of what you thought, what I thought you were gonna say about blogs. I thought you were gonna say that they were ineffective. We write blogs and then we just put a section of the blog in the newsletter, so whether they read the whole thing or not, it’s still a psychological authority connection, meaning that they’ll read the subject, maybe read the first couple of lines, and say these guys know what they talk about, and that’s really all people want in the inspection is to have confidence that you’ve done a great job, and once they know that you’ve done a great job, and you’re knowledgeable and you’re not necessarily making mistakes, all that other stuff comes into fruition too.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, and it’s, it’s funny, because a lot of people say that, you know, like blogging is on it, or, like, I hear the same people that say that, like being a member of InterNACHI isn’t important, those logos don’t mean anything. I’m like, they mean something. Are people gonna sit there and research every logo you have, or every certification? No, but it’s about creating that warm, fuzzy feeling that authority, like, oh well, he has a blog every month. Oh, my goodness, he has videos. Oh, look at him on social media. He’s got more logos and certifications than I can count here. All of a sudden, we’ve taken our bricks and we’ve built this big castle of authority. I mean, even if somebody can pick away at a couple of those bricks. It doesn’t matter that castle is there, and that really is important. I actually find that the authority one is probably, in my opinion, one of the keystones, if not the keystone to a lot of this. Because once you have that authority, the rest of it, you can build right around it.
Sean Garvey
Yeah. I mean, I think, and it’s important communication too, right? Like, not all inspectors are super experienced in the trades. Not all our inspectors are old. Some are younger and have subject or theoretically less experience in that too, as well. So it’s being able to communicate all of that to create authority. Sometimes age is an instant authority in this business, right?
Ian Robertson
Yeah.
Sean Garvey
Because they’ve been in the trades for 20 or 30 years. but not everybody has that, at least at first, right? We’re all getting closer to that.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, we all get it eventually, Sean.
Sean Garvey
Right, it catches up to all of us at some point. But yeah, there are certainly different ways of communicating that authority and what you said right there is perfect. You know, the different associations, the badges from InterNACHI, certainly do help bridge that gap and communicate it really quickly, because it’s really hard to communicate some of that really quickly.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, Sean, this was great information, man. We could, we could talk about this on five more podcasts, because this is, this is just jam packed. And I’ve always had a lot of respect for the business you run, the business you do, and the authority that you have within our industry. So thank you for very much for being on and talking about these with us today. I appreciate it.
Sean Garvey
Ian, thank you so much for having me. This was a ton of fun. Let’s do it again.
Ian Robertson
Yeah, let’s do it again. I love it, everybody. Thank you for listening in, and we’ll catch you next time on Inspector Toolbelt Talk.
Outro: On behalf of myself, Ian, and the entire ITB team, thank you for listening to this episode of Inspector Toolbelt Talk. We also love hearing your feedback, so please drop us a line at [email protected].
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*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast, and the guests on it, do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Inspector Toolbelt and its associates.

PODCAST SUMMARY/BLOG
In the ever-evolving world of home inspections, mastering the art of sales and client relationships is pivotal. In a recent episode of Inspector Toolbelt Talk, Sean Garvey from Dwell Inspect sheds light on effective strategies to elevate your business. From harnessing the psychology of scarcity to building trust and authority, this episode is packed with actionable insights that can transform your approach to sales and client interactions.
One of the standout concepts discussed in the episode is the “McRib Principle.” Sean Garvey delves into the psychology of scarcity, a powerful tool in boosting business demand. By creating a perception of limited availability, similar to the allure of rare collectibles, home inspectors can drive up interest and demand for their services. Sean emphasizes the importance of avoiding desperation by not overextending schedules or lowering prices. Instead, creating value through perceived scarcity can lead to increased demand and business success.
Building trust with clients is another critical aspect covered in the episode. Sean highlights the power of small gestures in fostering strong client relationships. Offering a simple bottle of water or sharing valuable tips during an inspection can create a sense of obligation and connection. The Franklin effect, which emphasizes understanding and addressing clients’ needs during the home-buying journey, is also explored. By leveraging reciprocity and likability, home inspectors can transform client interactions into lasting connections and unyielding loyalty.
The episode also explores the art of establishing authority and credibility in the digital age. Sean and the host discuss leveraging content creation across various platforms, such as blogs, podcasts, and social media, to enhance professional presence. By utilizing social proof through authentic peer recommendations, inspectors can build trust and rapport with clients. The conversation emphasizes creative ways to engage clients, such as frequently using their names and offering personalized gifts. These strategies can help maintain strong connections, even in challenging times.
For those new to the field or seasoned inspectors looking to enhance their communication skills, this episode offers a wealth of insights. The discussion underscores the importance of effective communication and how it can elevate your professional presence. By combining various content forms and building rapport through thoughtful interactions, inspectors can establish themselves as trusted authorities in the industry.
The episode closes with a reminder of the convenience of the Inspector Toolbelt app, designed to streamline scheduling and report writing for home inspectors. Listeners are encouraged to provide feedback and subscribe for future episodes to continue gaining valuable insights into the home inspection industry.
Whether you’re looking to boost sales, build client loyalty, or enhance your digital authority, this episode of Inspector Toolbelt Talk offers practical strategies to help you succeed. By applying the principles discussed, inspectors can transform their business and client interactions, ultimately leading to greater success and satisfaction in their professional endeavors.