PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:

Ian Robertson
You are listening to Inspector Toolbelt Talk. I’m trying to come up with different ways to introduce our podcasts here. But today, we have a guest, special guest. We have Michael Weatherford, how are you?

Michael Weatherford
Morning sir, how are y’all doing?

Ian Robertson
I’m doing fantastic. You know, before I introduce here, we want to learn about you. We went to record this podcast, you’re like, hang on, I have to get the critters in.

Michael Weatherford
Yeah.

Ian Robertson
I didn’t quite know what was happening. I’m like, okay.

Michael Weatherford
Well, I’m doing home inspections, JC inspections, which has kind of been paused on me due to the knee injury, but I also take care of 360 acre ranch for a gentleman outside of Tulsa, Oklahoma out here. We got some cows and horses out there. We got, if you’re watching the weather, we got some weather moving in, started in last night with these guys and trying to get them out into the barn and get them all covered and stuff. Anybody that’s dealt with animals knows that sometimes they have a mind of their own. So it’s been, it was fun.

Ian Robertson
That’s awesome. You know, I love it when I have a podcast and everybody is like, we’re such an eclectic group as home inspectors. You know, it’s not like, oh, hey, I was born an inspector, and that’s all I do. And you talk with people. And you’re like, wow, you guys have an eclectic background.

Michael Weatherford
Yeah, you get people in all sorts, had them in various groups, I got a couple I’d use, we’d hire them in, for co-admin and that’s something you know, we hear a lot of questions on, is, I don’t have background with construction, or electrical, or you know, whatever. But a lot of times, I like to get in there be like, hey, I came out of warehousing and logistics in the medical field. So now I take care of property. And, you know, it helps but you don’t have to have it, so…And I’ve known a few people. One guy was actually a lawyer that came out of it, why, I mean why leave lawyering, I guess I’m not a kid but it just seems to me the money be so much better doing that.

Ian Robertson
Not necessarily. But it’s funny you say that. That’s, that’s a whole different podcast we could do about it. But one of the best home inspectors that I know, came out of mechanics, he was a mechanic, and he just learned everything he could and I tell you what, he’s pretty fantastic. But anyways, different discussion, I want to go back to what you, what you were just talking about, that you admin to home inspector groups. And that’s why we have you on here today. Because this podcast is about Facebook etiquette. Now before you hit the stop button on this podcast, this is, we’re gonna play devil’s advocate for both sides of the issues here. Because I tell you what, we as home inspectors probably use social media more than any 15 year old girl at this point. You post something on Facebook, you’re gonna have some comments in these groups. So I’m a big user, too. So I’m not saying everybody else is a 15 year old girl and I’m not, but what are the two groups that you administer?

Michael Weatherford
So I’m co-admin in the Home Inspectors Helping Home Inspectors. It’s probably, want to say it’s the sixth largest Facebook group now.

Ian Robertson
That’s about what I was gonna guess.

Michael Weatherford
It’s only two years old. But one of our members that actually posted analystics that they found, and yeah, we’re, I want to say the sixth largest group now. And then I also had co-founded and co-admined, the Home Inspectors Tutor Group, which is geared more towards the newer, still in school, home inspectors.

Ian Robertson
I’m glad you clarified that, because when you first told me the Home Inspector Tutor Group, I just thought it was a really a group of gassy home inspectors or something. Sorry, I like to inject some dad humor. A different group, right? We’ve all been there. But I want to talk to you a little bit about, today about Facebook etiquette, because I just sit back on the sidelines and watch. I’m not the admin of any Facebook group. We’ve all been there. We’ve either asked a question or answered a question. And then like three hours later, we’re looking at our phone and we’re like, whoa, okay, here we go. You’ve seen a lot of that though, on the admin side, right?

Michael Weatherford
Yes, we do. We tend to monitor them a lot. You know, sometimes folks will come in there, they’ll be looking for, they’ll think it’s a stupid question because they don’t know and we encourage questions. There’s no stupid question. But you’ll get I guess, some of the saltier, hello. Just…

Ian Robertson
You got a little kitty?

Michael Weatherford
One of my cats decided he want to jump up here and join.

Ian Robertson
It’s okay, for everybody listening in. I also have my cat here in the background on the window. His name is Ron Swanson. He is my office buddy. He literally comes in first thing in the morning and leaves when I’m done for the evening, and he’s my office buddy. He just sleeps, though.

Michael Weatherford
Oh Strike.. That’s my buddy, Striker. He, he likes to be in the middle of everything. So yeah.

Ian Robertson
Everybody likes cat butt on camera. So there you go.

Michael Weatherford
Don’t encourage it. But no. Yeah, well, I see a lot of times, I’d say a lot. It’s simmered down someone degrees. We’d get somebody new, and they’d ask a question, and you get some of the older hands to a little less newbie friendly, would come in and really berate. And, yeah, we’d have to, we’d have to watch those and make sure it doesn’t get too sideways. So that’s a fine line we walk between trying to let you know, educational and learning experience, and then just outright disrespect and rudeness.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, I was watching one today where somebody asked a newbie question. And basically, some people gave some salty answers. And then his retort was basically the F word several times to several people. And that was his only answer for several posts. And I’m like, okay, there’s two sides of a situation here. And I see this happen a lot. And I’m gonna play devil’s advocate for both sides. If you’re a new guy, and you show up, and let’s be honest, we say there’s no dumb questions. But there are. And you ask a question that you could have Googled. When I grew up, I had all brothers. If I did that, I got my butt kicked. If my other brother did that, then we kick his butt, you know, there’s a certain amount of, if you could have Googled the question, or if you ask something that shows your newness, and somebody says, go back to school, they may just be saying, something that needs to be said maybe to a certain extent, just in the wrong way, but our taking offense to it just brings it down to their level. You know, for us older guys, you know, so if we’re going to respond that way, and then, and then complain that our industry doesn’t know enough, or that the new guys are bringing our industry down, but every time they ask us a question, we just brush them off, say something rude, or yell at them, “go back to school.”

Michael Weatherford
Right, that doesn’t encourage them all the time.

Ian Robertson
Neither side is helping either side.

Michael Weatherford
We understand that there’s, you know, both groups, there could be somebody out here, like, I could be out on an inspection. And I could come across something like a boiler, because I ain’t seen but a few of those. And it might be quicker, you know, suppose the group has anybody on the sides, anybody have some information on this? And those kinds of things we encourage, you know, and that’s definitely where we want, you know, people to understand, don’t, don’t be rude and say, Google it and don’t be dropping the F bomb, and, you know, but at the same time, if they’re sitting at home, and there’s, what’s a, what’s a boiler, you know, then yeah, that’s not, that’s not conducted for the group. Now, if they were to come in, and say, I’m trying to study up on boilers, and I found this information, I think it’s saying this, but I don’t understand. You know, they’re looking for clarification. That’s, that’s okay. Does that make sense?

Ian Robertson
Yeah, no, I think maybe we should take this in pieces, like you just expressed. From from a newbie standpoint, what Mike just said there is very important for us to remember if we’re new. If we’re out in the field, we’re in an attic. We’ve never seen this before. Let’s go ask the group. Guys, can you help me? And caveat it with this, I am on an inspection right now. I’ve not seen this before. So no matter how long you’ve been in the industry, and there’s going to be guys out there, “I’ve never seen anything I didn’t know what it was. All right. I’ve done more thousands of inspections than I can count. I still come up on stuff, and I’m like, what in the world is that? I live in the northeast. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I live in the northeast, and you live over by Tulsa. Right?

Michael Weatherford
Yeah, in central.

Ian Robertson
The buildings are going to be completely different, different styles, different things, even in my area, one neighborhood to the next. I’m like, Oh, they did this here. They did that there. You know, you can’t know it all.

Michael Weatherford
No.

Ian Robertson
But like, if you, like you said, if we’re a newbie, and we’re sitting at home, and we could just very easily google it. And we just throw it at the group. And then we’re mad at their comments. Yeah, there’s a little bit on us, right?

Michael Weatherford
Yeah, yeah, we have actually had some posts where you can tell they’re just, they’re not trying to research. We encourage researching, you know, we encourage them to come out. Try to find the answers on their own. You know, obviously, that’s the best way to learn, is to try and, try and experience yourself, you know, trying to learn yourself, but we understand that, like you said, like, like for me, boilers, you know, I haven’t come across a lot of boilers. So for me, I go out and read the book and everything, and I can learn that. But if I’m in the field, and I see something, sometimes it’s quicker if I can ask, but you be specific. But yeah, if you, if you go on there, just vaguely, “hey, what’s the boiler?” We’re gonna remove that. You’re just showing that you’re not even trying at that point. So…

Ian Robertson
Yeah, so let’s, we’re taking it just from the newbie side for the moment, we’re going to talk about the grizzled old fellas like us, we’re going to talk about that in a moment. But just for the newbies, if you’re upset by the comments that you get when you post, just a couple of quick suggestions that Mike has talked about here, and now we’re just kind of going over, just to review so far. Number one, try to research first, or two, caveat your post with “I’m in a bind on an inspection.”

Michael Weatherford
Yes.

Ian Robertson
And then two, this is just my opinion, remember that the guys that you’re asking are giving you free information. When I first started, these Facebook groups didn’t exist. If you wanted to know something from another home inspector..

Michael Weatherford
You had to actually go to them.. And hope that they’d be willing to help you out. Because even still, a lot of inspectors, you know, because the whole training their competition thing, there’s still a lot of that mindset.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. Yeah, a lot of them wouldn’t. So we’re getting a resource now that we wouldn’t have had before. And those guys spent the past 50 years building houses, inspecting houses, studying like crazy. So when we post something, sitting there, you know, at night, I’m writing a report, you know, what’s this? That’s gonna, you know, irk some nerves there, that’s not going to make it pretty. Now, if we caveat it with, I looked on NACHI, I’ve looked on ASHI, I’ve looked on this forum and that forum, I can’t seem to find this. Those same guys. Yeah. They’re gonna be more willing to help. Right?

Michael Weatherford
Right, that gives them, that gives them a little, you know, okay, this person is trying. So.. but on the other side of that token, though, I mean, some of these growth guys, like me, sometimes, I don’t always speak softly. So, but it’s not that I’m trying to be rude. You don’t like the property or I got somebody on an inspection. And sometimes I might say things a little harsher than I intend. And it’s not necessarily, and so that’s something else that we try and tell some of the new guys is, you know, trying to look below the surface, see, if they’re, you know, trying to look at it in context, I guess you’d say, you know, are they just talking? Is this just how they talk? Are they actually being disrespectful? I mean, if they’re dropping the F bomb on you, and calling you all kinds of names, okay, but you know, if they’re, hey, look, you really need to pay attention to this, this is what you’re looking at, or this is what you need to be watching out for. They’re not, they’re not trying to be hard on you, you know, if they say.. there was one post, you know, the, one of the repliers had posted links and said read up on these. This will help. Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s not being disrespectful to the newbies, that’s, you know, giving them the tools needed.

Ian Robertson
Here’s the resource.

Michael Weatherford
Yeah, they’re giving them tools. But I had one of them was like, hey, this is rude. And I’m like, that’s not, no, that’s not rude. You’re, I mean, if he was calling you names and stuff, yeah. But you’re being a little too thin skinned there, if you know what I mean. So, we kind of, we kind of see it on both sides, on the admin side, too.

Ian Robertson
Oh yeah, and, you know, it’s, it’s a practice in our industry, too. If you’re new, and you’re getting offended by the answer, if you’re on site, the sellers agent, the contractor, they brought with them, the father-in-law that was on the inspection, they’re not going to hand us answers and white gloves. They’re gonna be pretty direct. So we need to learn to be able to handle that. And sometimes we inflect our own emotions, our own thoughts on text that’s read.

Michael Weatherford
Yes.

Ian Robertson
You know, you’re talking very calm and nice here. But, you know, if you wrote it out on a, on a text message, if somebody’s already upset, yeah, now, it just looks rude. And now they’re like, he’s just being rude. He’s just being a jerk. And it’s not really, we’re not gonna be handled with white gloves in life, in our careers.

Michael Weatherford
No, yeah, especially, I mean, you’re gonna come across them out there, and so you gotta watch it. And that’s something we try to say to the new guys is, you know, is it being hard, or they just not necessarily sugarcoating it and making you do your work? Because that’s not, the groups are not there to hand you your answers and do your work for you. They’re there to help you learn and better yourself. Just like, just like going to NACHI or ASHI, either one. Or, you know, some of the vo techs have approved schooling. I see your kitty back there. Hey. Mine was just rubbing my legs and I was like… You know, the groups are there to help you learn, not, not just give you the answers. So, but we do, we do try to watch the etiquette.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, the etiquette is important. So we’re going to talk about the other side of things, but I wanted to talk a little bit about my uncle when I was younger. He used to call me dumb as a box of rocks. You know, he’d hand me the dumb end of the tape and tell me to go do stuff and then yell at me afterwards. You know, I never really took offense to it because that’s just, I mean, that’s just how I grew up. It was, I knew he loved me, you know. But at the same time when it was, I remember one night, I had to change my brakes out. And I was young, I didn’t know how to change my own brakes at the time. And he sat with me in late January in the Northeast, freezing temperatures into all hours of the night, changing my breaks. Never expected a thank you, called me the next day to tell me I’m as dumb as a box of rocks and come with him. We were surveyors, he was a surveyor. So I was helping him. But you know, that’s, that’s just how people express themselves sometimes. And yeah, you know, at least they’re answering. They could have just said, ah, this jerk, and not answered you. At least we’re getting an answer out of them.

Michael Weatherford
I was gonna say, you get an answer. Yeah.

Ian Robertson
All right. So let’s talk about the tough old guys. I’m going to put myself in that group. I have enough years under me to say I am a grizzled old fellow. So there’s our side of things. I think sometimes we forget that, you know, the internet didn’t get big, until I was in like my, my late teens, I think it was or something like that. And some of us, if we’re 65 years old or something, internet didn’t come out until we were 30. You know? So we may not, let’s, let’s admit it, always understand the full extent of what internet etiquette really is.

Michael Weatherford
Yes.

Ian Robertson
So, and if we don’t admit that, we’re probably fooling ourselves because somebody coming into this career at 25 may be expecting one thing because he grew up with the internet, the internet’s always existed in his lifetime, or even 30 to 35 years old. So yeah, it’s, it’s weird to think about. So we may be missing a little bit of etiquette. And I learned that from my, from one of my team members here at our company, they sent an emoji. And I’m like, what in the world does that mean, and it was like, it’s a long story, but they had to explain to me that the way I use emojis isn’t the way young people use emojis anymore. And I’m like, man, even emojis are going out of style.

Michael Weatherford
Yeah. Yeah, I can understand.

Ian Robertson
So I mean, Mike, what do you, what are some things that you see some of the older fellas on the groups do, that they could pull back on just a little bit.

Michael Weatherford
So this is kind of kind of a grey shader for me because, you know, like you, I grew up a certain way. And a lot of these younger ones, they’re coming up differently than we did. You know, but I think one of the biggest things is, maybe, maybe talk a little bit softer, so to speak. Because neither group really has a bad problem of profanity in any of the comments and such. But it’s more, more like dumbs box for rocks. You know? Yeah, in my case, it was the brightest bulb in the tool shed.

Ian Robertson
Maybe it’s a generation thing.

Michael Weatherford
I think it’s mostly a generation. But the biggest thing I see is, is with a lot of the older guys, I guess. And I’ve done it myself, where I’ll see somebody post and I’ll think, well, you should know that, you’ve been through, you at least went to school, you know. And it kind of flashes back to what you said earlier about, like the internet and all the resources they have available now that we didn’t have, you know, back 20 years ago, you know, 30 years ago. And for us, some some of the stuff for us, it’s almost like common knowledge, may not be so common for them. So, yeah, I think, I think one of the biggest things is just, you know, remembering the age gap, you know, talk a little softer, don’t, don’t expect them to be there. You know, we all started somewhere. I think that’s probably one of the biggest, bigger things too. So we’ve all started somewhere. And some of those older ones, you know, forget what it was like when we started out and not knowing and, you know, we had, we had to take a lot harder bumps, but we still had to start out too at the bottom.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. And I think that’s the point I was, I was about to make, basically, too, because when I was younger, when you were younger, maybe you’re a bit older than me. I’m in my 40s somewhere. I’m not ever to let everybody know exactly.

Michael Weatherford
I’m a little bit north end of the 40s.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. So okay, so yeah, so we’ll call it ballpark, just call it ballpark and leave it there. But when I was younger, you know, I think it was the beginning of the end for people learning the trades as part of life. I can still remember helping my uncles put in our septic system, crawling through the crawlspace, figuring out how to turn the boiler back on when it broke, you know. I remember digging a ditch to a dry well, and it’s 11 o’clock at night, and that’s not child labor or abuse. It was like, okay, here we are, this is what we do. You know, it’s a different generation of things. So we had an advantage. By the time I was in my 20s, I kind of knew how to do stuff, you know, and it wasn’t as common back then, like, my friends are like, I don’t know how to do that, why would I need to know. And it’s even less now. So some of these guys may have worked in the trades, but they didn’t necessarily grow up in the trades. And I think the guys that grew up in the trades, that still grew up in the trades, they don’t ask those same kind of questions like, let’s be honest with you, hopefully, he’s not listening. But I saw two, two posts from two separate guys. So you can guess whoever it is. One guy posted a picture of an old skylight. It’s an old style skylight. He didn’t know what it was. So first of all, you posted on there. And you don’t expect anybody to make fun of you. I’m sorry. But that’s, it’s gonna happen. So it is what it is. But the older guys at the same time took it too far. Instead of saying, hey kid, it’s a skylight. Just make sure you look this up next time. They were, they were pretty over the top like, going after these two guys, on two separate occasions. So there’s fault at both sides. It’s like, think about that young guy. Does he have a construction, did he grow up installing these things? Did he fix these things before? He’s trying to make a career out of this and trying to learn. And the one thing that guys kept repeating, you’re charging people money for this? So there is validity on both sides of that? Yes, he is. Technically, if he has a license in this state he’s licensed, the state said he’s qualified. So help him become more qualified. For the older guys. And for the younger guys, it’s like, listen, licensed doesn’t necessarily mean you’re qualified. If these older guys are willing to even talk to you, to tell you, hey, son, you’re as dumb as a box of rocks. Take it back. And like you said, take it at face value. What are they trying to say? Okay, I should have known this. I always tell people the story when I didn’t know enough about electrical. I’ve mentioned this on another podcast when I was younger, just wasn’t my thing. So I went back and I learned everything I could about electrical from a couple of bad experiences. And a couple of guys telling me, you’re an idiot. Okay, so I took that as, okay, I’m gonna go back and learn everything I could. Now I teach courses on electrical. So spend some time, take that at face value. I still don’t think of those people as being jerks. I’m like, I needed to know that. Presentation, not that great, but here it is. What are some other things that might hurt the whole dynamic of a Facebook group? As older guys, because we talked a lot about the younger guys, I think that’s, you know, basically low hanging fruit, you ask a dumb question, you’re gonna get a dumb answer. But for us older guys, what are some other things that you think we need to improve on?

Michael Weatherford
Probably be more open, be more accepting of these younger guys coming in, be more, more understanding of their lack of knowledge. Yeah, like I said earlier, we grew up learning certain things, you know, grew up with certain traits. And a lot of these guys don’t, you know, so, on the one hand to say, if you’ll come in here and try and learn, be ready for some hard knocks. But for us older guys, if these people are trying to come in here and learn, you know, let’s be a little more accepting of them, you know, at least the ones that are actually trying, not just the ones that are posting a picture up there and hoping somebody teaches, you know, writes out the report for them. We don’t, we don’t need those. But if somebody’s actually trying, let’s be more accepting, that’s something I probably see a lot, is some of the older guys have a hard time accepting these younger guys. Maybe it’s fear of competition, could be the, you know, because we’re, we’re getting older and we’re coming out of the fields more, I don’t know, but for me it’s, I used to have a problem whenever somebody come in and try and take, come into my area. Now it’s more, no, come on in, let’s learn together, you know, maybe I can, maybe I can learn from you, you know, you’re a little bit younger, your, your minds a little fresher. Not to say that my mind’s not fresh, but I’m pretty sure the cobwebs are growing cobwebs up there. But some of these young guys have got a good perspective that we may not have never thought about. And if we keep shutting them down or trying to shut them out or shoving them off. We’re gonna get stagnant, and we’re not gonna go anywhere either. So..

Ian Robertson
Yeah, I think that’s part of the problem, there’s, there seems to be a rift, and it’s not always just older generation and experienced guys versus newer guys. But that seems to be quite a bit of it. And it’s a big one, and we’re going to talk about a third aspect here in just a little bit, but that, as that rift widens, we as older guys are like, if we worked in the 90s in inspections, we realize now that the price of an inspection has gone nowhere. Yeah. And then we blamed the younger guys for that. It’s like, come on, guys, you haven’t raised your prices in 30 years, if your prices are the same. “Well, they’re, they’re keeping the prices low.” I’m like, then go work with that guy, help him to raise his prices.

Michael Weatherford
Show him what he can do to bring more value to himself.

Ian Robertson
Exactly. And I remember, I remember somebody saying, you know, don’t, don’t show everybody all your tricks. Don’t do this. And don’t do that. I’m like, listen, nobody wanted to show me stuff when I was younger, just starting out. I went through and started to show everybody everything, including my competition. There’s a competitor of mine that got started, you know, I helped him. And now he’s doing extremely well. I don’t view that as a problem. Because now his prices are up, my prices are up. Everybody’s happy.

Michael Weatherford
Everbody kind of wins.

Ian Robertson
Everybody kind of wins. So it’s not as cutthroat as we might think. I like my area here. Because there’s several of us home inspection companies. We literally hang out. We talk, we hang out. I remember when COVID first book bursted out, we were all contacting each other. What are you doing? Okay, can you help me here? And we’re doing this and this and this. It was awesome. It was like a little coalition. If somebody’s down, we kind of help them get up. Be that, instead of, you know..

Michael Weatherford
Instead of trying to step on him to get up further, try and help. Yeah, lift everybody. Yeah.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. Or be afraid of that young guy. You know, you’re charging less and offering too much. And you don’t know, I’ve been through the war of, you know, 30 years in this business. Okay, cool. But like you said, fresh, fresh perspective. So, like smart homes. Yeah.

Michael Weatherford
Smart homes is a whole new critter.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. So some of these younger guys, they come in, and they’re like, oh, yeah, this is what’s in my house. And they can say, okay, here’s the C wire on the back of the thermostat. And here’s how you program this, this, and this.

Michael Weatherford
Yes. They understand it so much better. Because we grew up with the hammer and screwdriver. They grew up with the electronics and the laptops. So they’ve got, at least for me, anyways, they’ve got a better understanding of all that smart technology and WiFi and wireless and program your house running from the phone, you know, so I still got keys for my door.

Ian Robertson
Well, and even if we’re tech savvy as an older person, and we’re like, yes, I understand this just as much as a young person. It’s not the same when it’s second nature. And that’s what they, that’s what they grew up with, you know.

Michael Weatherford
Well, you’re pretty tech savvy, so…

Ian Robertson
You know, but at the same time, my daughter, she goes, oh, just click here, here, here, here, here, here. And I’m just like, okay, I’m pretty tech savvy. And it’s just second nature, because that’s what they, they were born on. You know what I mean?

Michael Weatherford
Yes. Well it’s handy, they grew up with it. Yes. It’s what they know.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. But there’s always going to be two inches. Not every older guy is not going to be tech savvy. Every younger person is going to be tech savvy. But as a whole, there’s two perspectives there that can be brought together. The third aspect I’d like to talk about though, is peer to peer. I see a lot more of that going on. Do you, Mike? Like, two guys who have been in business, one guy, 14 years and the other guy 16 years, and they’re just going at it. Like a brawl online. Have you seen that, more of that going on?

Michael Weatherford
Amongst themselves? Yeah, yeah, it’s, and I’ve seen a real big uptick in the last oh, probably year or so since the market kind of went down. So I don’t know if it’s so much, you know, personalities, or if it’s a market scare thing going on right now. But yeah. And I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it with the older guys, but I’ve also seen it with some of the younger ones, too. So yeah, they’re trying to get set. They’re trying to get set up and stepped in and yeah, start fighting each other.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. And it’s kind of funny, because, again, I’m trying not to make this too descript so people can figure it out and say, oh, there’s that post Ian was talking about. But I made this, somebody made this post asking about this certain building feature. And I happen to know enough about it. So I said, here’s a diagram of how this feature works. Here’s my experience with it. It’s not very common in most areas. But here’s, here’s my experience with it. And here’s an article on it. And it was a younger guy, I think probably newer inspector rather. Oh, thank you. And then all of a sudden, one of my peers jumps in and just start swinging. I didn’t even know where it was. It was like, how dare you say that? I’m like, how dare I say what? You know, like, I posted a diagram and said, here’s, here’s what it does. Um, I didn’t think this was an opinion piece. And finally, finally, it just, it just trickled down. So I just finally said, oh, okay, that was it. And it’s so weird because I think he inflected his own defensiveness on what I was saying, I didn’t even say anything really. I said, oh, yeah, here’s, here’s a diagram and an article. Oh, thanks a lot, buddy. Appreciate it. Cool. So even when we’re trying to be helpful, sometimes people are just going to be a target. And they may not mean it.

Michael Weatherford
Some people just jump wrong.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, but we have to remember, there are peers. So I tried to be respectful. But in the moment, I’m like, trying to shut myself down too, because I’m like, how dare he? Does he know who I am? You know, it’s like, there’s a little weird dude in the back of your head that says like, oh, okay, hang on, man. Let’s do this.

Michael Weatherford
Yes, no, no, yeah. Try not to escalate it. That’s a big thing. That’s, that’s probably, for everybody out there. If you’re in either one of the groups, you know, and you start running into something like this. Another post that I see that gets a lot of people swinging like that is the electrical grounding versus neutral double tags and stuff. Oh, my Lord.

Ian Robertson
Hang on, hang on, like I have an opinion.

Michael Weatherford
Yeah. So yeah, at least, I don’t know, a couple times a week. But if one of you guys get, whenever, whenever your listeners get in there. And they’re in a, in a group like that, and they post something, and somebody comes swinging a hammer, if they reply to the post, biggest thing that I can recommend is don’t, don’t escalate it. Just say, okay, thank you, and just leave it. It’s probably one of the biggest, best things you can do.

Ian Robertson
And I think some people, I know, in my mind, you know, in the heat of the moment, in my mind, I’m thinking, this guy is disrespecting me. I need to prove my knowledge that I know more, that I am a professional. And this is one of my expertise. But it never comes off that way. Like anytime anybody’s ever done that, you do not come off looking awesome after you’ve just defended yourself to, you know, somebody just swinging. It’s kinda, it’s kind of like a fight. You ever watch, you ever watch two guys fight? In their mind, they think it’s like a Jackie Chan movie. And they’re swinging and they’re like, I’m looking so tough. And then you look at like security video. And it’s two dudes rolling around, lifting up each other’s shirts on the ground, you know, it’s like, yeah, that didn’t make you look awesome. That was..yeah.

Michael Weatherford
Didn’t quite get where you was hoping it would get.

Ian Robertson
Exactly, but that’s what the Facebook fight looks like. At the end, you’re just like, okay, so you were right. You look like a boob doing it. So…

Michael Weatherford
Yeah, there’s a few times where we’ll clean up a thread or a post. And me and some of the admins will have a little talk. And I’d be like, yeah, what was, what was this all about? What were they trying to do here? Well, I mean we could see what they were hoping to go for. But what they actually accomplished is, no…and we want to laugh about it, so..

Ian Robertson
Yeah, and we’re all human. I’m sure you’ve probably gone the wrong direction like me on a Facebook post and went down a rabbit hole and later. Oh, yeah, I actually, I actually messaged another inspector and apologized because I was not as kind as I could have been. And I’m not, when Mike and I say, be kind, we’re not talking about, here’s a little padded bubble room. You know, I’m gonna dress it up all fancy. We’re saying, just don’t be like, hey, jerk, read this, either. Oh, it’s just like, okay, here’s a resource for you, why don’t you read over this article.

Michael Weatherford
Exactly.

Ian Robertson
Didn’t take any longer, same article, all about presentations. But I could have been, I could have been nicer. I messaged him and apologized. And he still got mad at me. You know, it’s like, okay, be the bigger guy. We’re adults.

Michael Weatherford
So, I’ve had to, I suspended one, this was a while back, like a while back, but I suspended one guy. And then after going back and looking at it, and then talking to one of the other admins, he was like, hey, what in the world? You know, he kind of showed me where I was in the wrong. I was like, okay, so, you know, I had reinstated him, and I messaged, reached out, apologized, and it was kind of similar. He was, you know, well, don’t be so gung-ho, his words were a little bit harder than we’ll go into here. But basically, don’t be so gung-ho to go after somebody whenever you see something. Why don’t you take a minute, and try and see what they’re trying to say. And I was like, that’s a very valid point. And so, yeah, I try, and I try and use that objectivity whenever we’re adminning. So..

Ian Robertson
Yeah, you know, a constant guest on our show is Jay Wynn. I always love Jay, for the fact that, it’s an important life lesson for us as home inspectors. Anytime he’s had a contractor, like get in his face, and I’ve seen some pretty nasty stuff go down with Jay with some guys getting in his face. He always walks away, and he’ll try to find one point that they’re right with. He’s right about that, I could have, I could have done this a little bit differently. But that’s why he’s always becoming like a way better inspector, you know, and that’s why he can also handle, you know, very difficult situations with basically a Facebook kind of situation happening in real life on site, and he can handle it. Because those are important life skills. If we can de-escalate a situation, I think that’s more important as a home inspector, than understanding how, exactly how every component in the refrigerator works, just de-escalating is a lot of our job.

Michael Weatherford
Yes.

Ian Robertson
So it’s important to learn.

Michael Weatherford
And that’s something we use in the, in the groups, in adminning, too, is trying to use de-escalation, whenever we see, you see a post or comments section is starting to feel a little sideways, you’re trying to de-escalate it down, or, or we’ll try and, you know, pull people to the side, you know, try and figure out what the, what the difference is going on with them and see if we get some middle ground going with them. So, you know, everybody comes away, a little bit more of a winner than everybody losing out.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. And I was telling you before the show, I always had this little speech, we always have, we keep things very clean here, we don’t swear. But let’s just say assume is an acronym for something. When we assume that somebody has bad intentions, or they’re trying to be a jerk, our reaction is going to be on par with this. If we just step back and assume, are they trying to be helpful, but that’s just their personality, I think that could take care of 90% of the problems out there.

Michael Weatherford
And that’s kind of what I was saying earlier, you know, we’re, looking at the context to how they’re talking, to look at them, is this, is this just how they communicate. Because I mean, I’m not trying to excuse bad behavior. But, you know, some of the, some of the older generation, like me, like us, you know, sometimes we talk a little rougher than what we probably should, but it’s not that we’re trying to talk you down, as we’re trying to give you the information, and go on, you know, so at least for me, I’ll try and you know, here’s the information. Here’s what I’m trying to teach you, this is what you know, you need to look for, this is where you can look at to learn more, and then I go on my way. You know, it’s not that I’m trying to be too hard on him or something. But..

Ian Robertson
Yeah, so I think if we were to sum up this episode, and maybe you can either add on or correct me, if we’re, if we’re a new inspector, get thicker skin. And you know, I think that’s really what it comes down to. You’re gonna have a lot of, a lot of hard times in the career as a home inspector, because you’re paid to give your opinion, and nobody’s going to like it your entire career. So get thicker skin. For the older guys. We don’t know everything. Let’s just back up a little bit. And if we want to fix our industry, we need to help these guys without being a turd to them.

Michael Weatherford
Yes. Yes.

Ian Robertson
Yeah, let’s elevate them.

Michael Weatherford
Yeah, help bring them up.

Ian Robertson
Exactly. We don’t, we don’t need to be hard on people because they ask a question. And from peer to peer, de-escalation, and assuming the person has good intentions will always end up better in the long run.

Michael Weatherford
Yes. Exactly. A lot of times, yeah, de-escalation. Even peer to peer, you want to be out there in the field, and you got the father-in-law with his tape measure, de-escalation, that’s almost always going to be a good, a good tool to have, if you can build that up.

Ian Robertson
We could talk about de-escalation all day long. You’re gonna have, you’re gonna have agents whose…I’ve inspected many houses where this was their big commission for the year, you want to talk about tense, you know, tense environment, or the father-in-law or another inspector or whatever it happens to be, de-escalation. That’s an amazing skill. When I see guys do that online, I have the utmost respect for them. You know, guys, like you, I have you on because it’s like, oh, it’s a de-escalator. Cool. Not, not the guy who’s, who’s starting that sloppy, rolling around on the ground kind of fight, thinking it looks cool, and it doesn’t.

Michael Weatherford
Let’s not stir it up.

Ian Robertson
Yeah. One thing I will say, maybe we could end on this point. What’s your opinion on blocking people in the groups? Because I see, I see that happen a lot. I laugh my butt off, because they’re both arguing, and then they can’t see each other. But they’re still going at it. And there’s like two separate conversations happening. And I’m like, if you guys just unblocked each other, you could actually see what’s happening.

Michael Weatherford
Yeah, you could actually have a conversation where we resolve some stuff here, instead of…Yeah, yeah.

Ian Robertson
I had this one guy that blocked me. I don’t even know why, maybe he didn’t get my sense of humor or something. Or he just didn’t like one of our posts. I have no idea. But he blocked us. And there was this weird thing happening, where people were responding to him and me, and I’m like, what in the world is going on? So weird. And like, it started to look super weird to everybody else. And I was like, alright, this is stupid. So I just think the worst possible thing you can do is block a person in a group because then it just looks weird.

Michael Weatherford
Yeah. You know, Yeah, cuz then you’re not getting, you’re not getting that other, you’re not getting a chance to de-escalate it. You’re not getting a chance to work it out, so there’s probably the two biggest things right there, you’re blocking somebody, you’re just hurting yourself.

Ian Robertson
And that might be a revelation for a few people out there that didn’t realize, oh, wait, when I blocked them, other people can still see what we both post. Let’s step back, and think about that. That can make some weird stuff, that’s kind of like putting up a wall in the middle of the room. But there’s still other people in the room. You can’t hear what the other guy is saying. But the other people can, makes things awkward.

Michael Weatherford
We get to go in there, we get, what in the world is all this, and yeah, then we got to go through to clean it up.

Ian Robertson
So you know what’s gonna happen after this podcast, Mike, is everybody’s gonna dig up every weird comment that me and you have ever said and said, hang on guys, go for it. We’ve, we’ve all been there. That’s why me and Mike are here. We’ve all been there. We’ve made mistakes. We’re trying to help.

Michael Weatherford
Daily make mistakes because you always learn, so..

Ian Robertson
So, Home Inspectors Helping Home Inspectors is one of my favorite groups to be in. You do a great job adminning it. You and the others. Thank you. Home Inspector Tutors Group. Again, that is not for gassy home inspectors, that is for tutoring. And Mike is an admin over there too. But Mike, you’ve been awesome. Thank you so much for being on. You’re just a great guy to talk with and hope you had fun putting all that cattle away.

Michael Weatherford
They’re a mess.

Ian Robertson
We’ll just leave that.

Michael Weatherford
That was a mess, if they haven’t had the experience dealing with cattle and trying to get them..Yeah.

Ian Robertson
Well, our cats have met our listeners and met you in person. And we thank you so much for being on.

Michael Weatherford
Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

Ian Robertson
Talk soon.

Outro: On behalf of myself, Ian, and the entire ITB team, thank you for listening to this episode of inspector toolbelt talk. We also love hearing your feedback, so please drop us a line at [email protected].

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