WANT TO TIGHTEN UP YOUR INSPECTION AGREEMENT? ISAAC PECK CAN HELP!
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Ian R: Welcome back to inspector toolbelt talk. Today we have with us, Isaac Peck. How are you, Isaac?
Isaac P: I’m doing great, Ian. How are you?
Ian R: I’m doing awesome. Thanks.
Isaac P: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Ian R: Yeah, we’re glad to have you. And Isaac today is going to help us out with our inspection agreements. We’ve often heard that our agreement is our first line of defense, our best line of defense, and oftentimes, our last line of defense. So having a good solid inspection agreement is really critical. And Isaac actually has a lot of experience in this. So before we get into the subject matter, and Isaac gets into some finer points, we’d like to get to know you a little bit. Isaac, where do you work? What do you do? How do you know so much about home inspection agreements and things like that?
Ian R: Yeah. So not to say that seeing a lot makes you an expert in your field. But you being an expert in your field is kind of what lends itself to you being in your position at OREP and working on a magazine? If you don’t? If you don’t read it, you really should I contribute to it a little bit. But man, there’s some great information in there the webinars that Isaac puts on. If you’d ever like to join one, how would they find out about that? Isaac?
Isaac P: Yes. So I’m the editor of WorkingRE home inspector. We’re the most widely read publication for home inspectors nationwide. That’s how, you know, we first got in touch, talking about the magazine. I’m also the president and senior broker at OREP insurance. OREP has been providing E&O and general liability insurance for home inspectors for over 20 years. I’ve been there for over 10 years helping deal with home inspector claims, providing risk management information to home inspectors, and learning so much about the legal and liability side of what home inspectors can get sued for, what kinds of claims letters come in. Specifically, to your point, what we can put in a pre-inspection agreement that really can protect the home inspector.
Ian R: So I can’t even begin to imagine how many pre-inspection agreements you have seen over the years and what you do at your position at OREP. If you had to take a wild absolute guess how many inspection agreements have you seen?
Isaac P: Oh, I don’t know. Many, many.
Isaac P: Yeah, you could just visit Workingre.com. and make sure you’re subscribed to our email newsletter. And you know, we do webinars from time to time on risk management, that is free to the whole industry. And just give you some tips and pointers about your agreement, and about just your inspection operations, how to avoid getting sued, and how to put yourself in the best position in terms of managing your risk and liability.
Ian R: Great. And I really do encourage you to follow everything that’s going on and WorkingRE magazine and with Isaac, because it is fantastic information that will really elevate where you end up in your career as a home inspector. I know I followed them for many years in my home inspection career. And all of my guys are readers and followers. But let’s get right into the subject matter now that we’ve established that Isaac is amazing at what he does. So Isaac, from your experience, what are the basic elements that need to be in place for an inspection agreement from an insurance company?
Isaac P: Well, basic, you need an agreement, and you need to get it signed. That’s really foundational. And most insurance carriers in the home inspection space, are going to want you to have a signed pre-inspection agreement as a condition of coverage, meaning they may decline to cover your claim if you don’t have a pre-inspection agreement signed. So you need to have an agreement and you need to get it signed.
Ian R: And I think it’s kind of sad that has to be said, oftentimes, I’ll be talking with home inspectors. And they’ll say things like, oh, yeah, I gotta make sure that client signs that agreement. I did the inspection yesterday. It’s a pre-inspection agreement, a post-inspection agreement may not have the same kind of weight to it. And then some guys say, Well, I don’t bother with that. I’ve never had a problem in years. It really is funny to hear those things said in the industry.
Isaac P: Oh, yeah. I mean, last year, we heard about one of our competitors, the home inspector got there, started doing the inspection and then mid inspection, the client signed the agreement. One of our competitors declined to cover the claim because their policy says it must be signed before the inspection takes place. There were obviously some real hard feelings about that. So I can’t say that we’re necessarily going to be as hard-line as that, but it oftentimes it could be up to the insurance carrier, right. We work with it with a number of different insurance carriers so yeah, I can’t stress enough get how important it is to get the pre-inspection agreement signed. One of the reasons that having the agreement signed is so important to the insurance carrier. Your agreement is one of your best defenses against potential claims,and that’s because the homebuyer, you know that there’s a lot of reasons why courts and juries and other folks may be sympathetic to the homebuyer, their purchasing the biggest investment of their life, etc. They might have an expectation that you know, you’re a fortune-teller, you can see through walls, you can, you’re going to be opening walls and taking things apart. You can tell how long things are going to last and when the roof is going to need to get replaced right in there. They’ve got, let’s call it, unrealistic expectations as far as what a home inspector does, what service you’re actually providing, what level of guarantee or security you’re bringing to this transaction. So having a pre-inspection agreement that clearly defines what is a home inspection, right, it’s a non-invasive visual observation of the home, you’re not non-invasive, meaning that you’re not taking anything apart, you’re not opening any walls. Getting real granular in terms of defining very clearly this is the service that I’m providing, as well as, this is what I am not doing.A home inspection is not, you know, a comprehensive mold testing and, I’m not moving furniture, I’m not opening up walls, etc. So the outside of particular clauses that we’re going to end up talking about, right, like specific things that you can have in your agreement, just having a definition of what the home inspection is, and what it is not, is foundational in terms of defending claims, because people will come to you and say, you know, hey, we moved the refrigerator, we moved a big piece of furniture, we moved a big bookcase, and there’s something on the wall behind it. Then you’re gonna say, Well, you know, my pre-inspection agreement says that I don’t move furniture, you know, so having those definitional items is absolutely key.
Ian R: Good. And I’m glad we’re covering this because as we mentioned before, we shouldn’t have to say this, but unfortunately, it has to be said, because I have known many inspectors very recently said, oh, yeah, I need to start using an agreement, or I need to start getting it signed before the inspection. That should really be one of the first things that we work on as a home inspection company. But I do have a sidebar question for you. I see a lot of inspectors have the agent sign the agreement for the client. I say a lot enough that it was notable in my mind, what is your opinion on the agent signing the inspection agreement for the client?
Isaac P: We think that that’s a really bad idea.
Ian R: Yeah. I’m no attorney or anything. But I can imagine that. Because now the client doesn’t understand that the client comes to sue you. That’s great that the agent understands the home inspection and understands those foundational things you just mentioned. But the client doesn’t understand and sign. That’s not great. Yeah,
Isaac P: yeah, we would not recommend that. I would say that’s a bad idea.
Ian R: Great. And I’m glad we talked about that, too, because I do see that come up quite a bit. I am interested to hear though, what clauses should we have in our agreements? What are some specific clauses that you recommend that we have in your experience from the claims that you’ve seen as help?
Isaac P: Yeah, I mean, as far as the first question, just to digress a little, you know, having a real estate agent is not the same thing as power of attorney, right. So there’s a reason your real estate agent doesn’t sign your purchase agreement or your property disclosures for you. Right? They don’t really have power of attorney, they don’t have the ability to sign on behalf of their clients unless there was a separate power of attorney agreement executed between them. So if you’re a home inspector, and you’re getting a real estate agent to sign your pre-inspection agreement, I’d say that’s really unwise.
Ian R: Yeah, I’m pretty sure there’s not a whole lot of buyers out there, giving their agents Power of Attorney. Yeah.
Isaac P: I haven’t seen that. So that question kind of takes, it makes me step back a bit.
Ian R: It made me think, too, because I remember a client of mine asking that he goes, Hey, do you have the agent signed for the inspection on the inspection agreement? I have that happening more and more. I’m like, and took me back. I’m like, Whoa, why would you ever do that?
Isaac P: Yeah, yeah, definitely. No, so in terms of the specific clauses that we that home inspectors should have in their agreements. Um, I mean, that The first and most obvious most widely discussed is the limitation of liability clause. Right. And home inspectors are typically very familiar with that, you know that my maximum liability is limited to my inspection fee is typically what that looks like. Another clause that we like to see is an attorney’s fees clause. And that says, If you file a lawsuit against me, and you lose, meaning that I win, right, you accused me, you sue me for missing something. And ultimately, it turns out that I’m not liable. You need to pay for my attorney’s fees,
Ian R: would you recommend that even in a state where attorney fees can’t be recouped?
Isaac P: I think that when we talk about clauses across all 50 states, and you know, and jurisdictions, it’s important to understand that that state law changes how certain clauses are interpreted and, and enforced, for example, in New Jersey, you know, went all the way to the New Jersey Supreme Court that says, you know, you can’t limit your liability, just to your inspection fee in New Jersey,
Ian R: oh, I didn’t know that.
Isaac P: And in California, there’s a California law that says that inspectors are not allowed to limit their liability just to their inspection fee. And so it definitely varies by state, I can’t speak to each state law, you know, how each clause is going to hold up, but broad brush, I can speak to clauses that are useful to home inspectors, and then I’d recommend doing some due diligence on your end and your specific state, how to word and how to craft the specific clauses that you put in your agreement for your state. I will say, for example, in New Jersey and California, for example, in states that have specific, specific laws against having a limitation of liability to your inspection fee, we would still recommend putting a limitation of liability in your agreement. And in that case, you could limit your liability to $3,000. Right and say that the max liability for this inspection is $3,000, or $5,000. Right? Which doesn’t bump you up against, say, a specific law in California that says you can’t limit your liability to the inspection fee, or the Supreme Court decision in New Jersey said, Look, if the max that the home inspector is going to refund is we’re going to be liable for is, you know, $400. It’s not a sufficient kind of deterrent for a home inspector to actually do good work. And so in the face of those kinds of legal precedents, if you’ve got a limitation of liability that says, hey, my max liability is $5,000. I think that that’s arguably enforceable, even in a state where, you know, they say, Hey, you can’t limit it to just your inspection fee.
Ian R: That’s fantastic advice. Yeah, I think I’m glad we went down that road because I didn’t know, first of all, New Jersey and California couldn’t limit your liability above your two-year inspection fee like that. Whereas other states enforce it. But that’s why I asked the question you pretty much answered it is still a deterrent. And you can still kind of change it and adjust it for local laws. And I guess that’s probably a good point in certain this podcast, we’re not attorneys. So unless you are Isaac, and I don’t know if you should always have your agreement reviewed by your attorneys, make sure it’s in line with local laws and things like that. But this is still great information that you can present to your attorney and, and talk about, because he may not understand the nuances of home inspection claims, kind of like Isaac does here. And the other particular clauses that have helped to help you and your clients in the past?
Isaac P: Yeah, um, I think it’s, it’s speaking to your point about who can sign the agreement, or who is the client? Right, the client should be defined broadly, in your agreement. So we’ve seen cases where, you know, the husband signs the agreement, and then the wife brings and she says, You know, I don’t know what he was thinking. But I’m, you know, I was relying on your report, and I didn’t sign the agreement. And so defining the client in very broad terms, right, the client is the person who’s signing it any business interests that are connected to him, his spouse, his family, etc. And we’ve got some examples of that. And if anybody is curious about any of the clauses that I’m talking about, they can email me. My email is just my first name [email protected]. So defining the client broadly, is a really important limitation. A statute of limitations is another one. So again, this is something that’s going to vary very widely by State Law, but you can limit the time period with which they can bring a claim against you. And in some cases, you know, the typical statute of limitations is two years, and you can limit it to one year, or it’s four years, and you can limit it to two years, and so on. And that’s always helpful to know that the majority of claims, I think somewhere around 60% of claims against home inspectors happen within the first year. So 60% happened within the first year, and then 90% happened within the first two years. So home inspectors kind of, face the claim fairly quickly, right? The person moves into the home, and chances are in the first year or two, they’re going to find something wrong and bring a claim. But there’s still a long tail on a smaller percentage of that right where home inspector, you know, 18 months or two and a half years later, they’ve got a client coming after them and saying, Hey, you missed this.
Ian R: At that point, I didn’t know that 60% of claims happen in the first year. And I guess that kind of makes me think limiting your liability makes it that much more important. Because the timeframe that is if you can avoid that other 40 % By limiting your liability to a year after the inspection, I imagine at least hedges that a little bit.
Isaac P: Yeah, having a statute of limitations in your agreement is a good idea.
Ian R: And you find that that holds up for your clients.
Isaac P: Again, it’s gonna depend on state law.
Ian R: Yeah. But at the very least somebody looks at that. And then they say, Oh, well, okay. It was limited to a year, it’s now 14 months later, at the very least, it’s a deterrent, I imagine.
Isaac P: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, something that’s worth mentioning is, is that the great vast majority of claims and complaints and demands for money are don’t make it to court. Right. So so whether that is you talking to, you know, your angry client from nine months ago, or from two years ago and saying, Look, you know, this is what was in the agreement, I want to remind you that the agreement says that I’m not to move furniture, and what you’re talking about was behind, you know, a big dresser, or, um, I want to remind you that there’s a limitation of liability in the agreement, I want to remind you that the, there’s a statute of limitations that we’re now out past. And the reason I have that is, you know, things change, and a year after I do the inspection, etc. Or it’s not you talking to the upset client, but it’s a claim adjuster, or a lawyer writing a letter to the client, saying, Look, here are all of the things in the pre-inspection agreement. That means you bring a claim against us is a really bad idea and isn’t going to go anywhere. Right. And so the more you have in that agreement that helps your case or strengthens your position, the better chance it is that that claimant is going to go away. Or no, if it is something serious, that we’d be able to settle that for a very nominal amount of money.
Ian R: And just to talk to your point there a little bit, we had an attorney one time explained to one of my companies, it’s basically layers. So you have a clause in there, that you’re not responsible for anything that was behind furniture, that’s one layer, then you have a limitation of liability, then you have a limitation of a time period, then you have disclaimers in your report, each one of those items, is another later layer, as you said, it’s part of everything that you bring to the table. So even if they can throw up, you know, five, six of these clauses at the same time, you can come back and say, well, there’s still three that really do apply to the situation.
Isaac P: Absolutely. I’ve seen attorney letters that are like, even if you could overcome this, I’ve still got this. And then if you were to overcome that, we still have this right and you know, writing a nice two-page letter that just lays out all of the arguments why they have no business bringing a claim against you, is very effective. It’s much more effective than, you know, sorry, I didn’t get my pre-inspection agreement signed. I’ve got nothing,
Ian R: Or saying that we had the real estate agent sign it and they’re selling another deal. And we’re working on a claim. So what are some of the most common claims if you had to narrow it down? What are the three most common claims that come against home inspectors? Because we have lots of clauses, but at the end of the day, sometimes we as home inspectors worry about stuff. Oh man, I missed this, or did I miss that? Or what about this? When in reality, sometimes the most common claims out there are not the ones that we worry about the most. So what would you say are the most common claims?
Isaac P: I think Water damage. That is not necessarily in the form of a mold claim, but claims that involve water are a big one, right? Whether it’s leaking pipes, or pooling water, those kinds of things. That’s a big one. Foundation claims are pretty common as our roofing claims.
Ian R: Okay, I think most of us would probably guess that those would have been in the very least in the top 10. So it sounds like most of those are things that we as home inspectors, I mean, those are some of the big things that we check for, you know, roof foundation and any kind of leak. Those are always top of mind. So the reason I’m stating that is, do you see a lot of meritless claims come in? Because unless we didn’t we just completely blew off? Inspecting the roof or something like that. Typically, we’re gonna say, oh, yeah, the shingles are falling apart. Yeah, of course, the roof is bad. Or oh, yeah, the foundation wall is bowing. And but would you say there’s a lot of meritless claims like, oh, we ripped out the finished basement. And there was a foundation wall issue?
Isaac P: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean, sometimes claims are just kind of I moved the refrigerator, right. I, I moved some furniture. And I found I found this, right, where I opened the wall is even kind of a more egregious example. Right? The Home Inspectors are often blamed for things that are hidden, or concealed. Right. And, and it all comes back to the idea that the home inspection is a non-invasive visit or visual observation, right? non-invasive being a really important word, you’re not moving furniture, you’re not opening walls, you’re not taking anything apart. So it’s a non-invasive visual observation. And that you’re absolutely right, that people often try to sue home inspectors for things that they couldn’t see while they’re doing a non-invasive visual observation. And I would consider that a fairly meritless claim.
Ian R: Yeah. Excellent. And so going back to the agreement, then to, because people, they don’t read the agreement, but having that in there as important. I say they don’t read the agreement. Some people do. I’ve had some people ask me questions about the agreement. But most of the time, I’ll send out the agreement through our software. And within two minutes, we have an agreement, signed and sent back to us. And I’m like, I don’t think I really had the time. Is it important to get the agreement to the client? Well, in advance of the inspection? Is it important to write in plain language? Or should we have a level of legalese? Or what are some other things that we need to make sure our agreement is equipped with?
Isaac P: Well, I think, again, you want to get it signed before the inspection. I mean, before the inspection, it’s called a pre-inspection agreement. So you want to have it signed in advance before you perform the inspection.
Ian R: But would you say, like, having assigned at the inspection a day before, would it be better to say, hey, we gave you a couple of weeks ahead of time when you scheduled or several days?
Isaac P: Yeah, the earlier the better. I’d say as soon as you have the order, the agreement should be sent. And if you and if you’re working with, you know, leading software providers, I know that’s an option with various, you know, different software packages for home inspectors, but the sooner you send it the better and no later than, you know, right before you begin your inspection. The other part of your question is kind of, it is important to have the key clauses such as the limitation of liability, and perhaps the attorney’s fees and the statute of limitations. The most important clauses in your agreement need to be conspicuous. And that means they need to stand out and be very obvious to the reader that it’s important so that that might mean all caps and in bold, in bold and read in a separate box, and or requiring a separate initial, next to say the limitation of liability clause. Some home inspectors think hey, you know, the limitation of liability might scare off some of my clients so I’m going to hide it in the pre-inspection agreement and just kind of make it look like all the rest of the text, and maybe the client won’t notice it and I won’t have a problem with that. And that actually makes it really hard to enforce. And in many states, you can enforce a clause like that, that if you have, specifically clauses that limit your liability, for example, like the limit, like the limitation of liability and the statute of limitations clause, right. The state law says it has to be conspicuous, it has to be very obvious. Meaning it needs to be in all caps bold, or red, or and or in a separate box that the more it stands up, the better because we don’t want to be in a position where we think we might have trouble enforcing it when we’re trying to negotiate or get that claim dismissed.
Ian R: It’s interesting, I hadn’t thought about making those clauses more conspicuous. I know that our attorney had made them more conspicuous. They’re in all caps. And I never really quite understood why that was a good explanation. Thank you. So going back to the attorney thing we had mentioned earlier, it’s good to have an attorney reviewer agreement. What’s your opinion? Should you have a home inspection-specific attorney review the agreement or a local attorney? Or a little bit of both? Because I kind of see people go both ways, and they have strong opinions on it. I watched, I wouldn’t call an argument but a strong discussion between two inspectors one time, one said Never use a home inspection specific attorney that works nationally won’t understand your laws. The other one said, Yeah, but the local attorney won’t understand home inspections. What’s your opinion on that?
Isaac P: I think, um, I think starting with, you know, an agreement that’s generated by one of the leading associations in the country, right. And there’s a few, you know, a few of the big national associations that provide pre-inspection agreements, and then talking to your, you know, insurance provider about specific clauses that they recommend. And, you know, I mentioned several, and we’ve written several stories about it on workingre.com if you just go to working, re calm and search, you know, key clauses pre-inspection agreement, you’ll see, you’ll find that we’ve written a number of stories. So we have our own preferences of kind of what we’d like to see. So you can start with, you know, a national association agreement, talk to your, you know, provider, add the clauses that they’re recommending you include, and be happy to talk to any home inspector that’s listening to this that you know, wants to talk through some things. And then I would say go local with a local real estate attorney, that understands the particulars of your state law, and has some experience in real estate.
Ian R: I think that’s a good process to go through. And I like how you keep offering for inspectors to call you. I do recommend that just shoot Isaac an email, give him a call. He’s very free with sharing his information and helping inspectors and we appreciate that about Isaac. Thank you. So you shared a couple of different clauses. Is there anything else on the agreement that you would specifically recommend, just to review what you’ve told us? So far, we have a limitation of liability. A foundational clause, as you called it describes what the home inspection is, and is not talking about the timespan where you have a liability and trying to check out your state laws on that. And then also, just making sure that we use a foundational agreement from an association going with our E&O provider, seeing what they want in there. And then bringing it to a local attorney who can kind of fine-tune a little bit. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with the listeners, help them understand a little bit about what can really help make their home inspection agreement airtight? So to speak,
Isaac P: You mentioned the attorney’s fees clause, right?
Ian R: Oh, I forgot about the attorney fees clause. Yeah, that’s an important one.
Isaac P: The list goes on, man. I don’t know if we can cover it all. Now.
Ian R: I’ll put a link in the transcript of this podcast and then just scroll down the transcript. And I’ll put a link to where Isaac has some of this information. https://www.workingre.com/
Isaac P: Yeah, I think, we have what’s called a notice and waiver clause. So if they noticed that something is wrong, they noticed a defect, they noticed something that they’re they’re fixing to blame you for. They need to notify you and give you time to come out and look at it before they do. They start you know, remodeling it. And that says if they fail to provide you notice and fail to let you come look at it, and they’re waiving any liability that you might have. And you know, that’s important. You might like that for a variety of reasons. First among them being you know, it’s hard to defend yourself when they’ve already remodeled everything that they’re blaming me for.
Ian R: You know, it’s interesting that you mentioned that we have that clause in our agreement. And I forget the time period, but that after discovery within so many days or weeks, they have to notify us In writing, either via email or whatever, I forget how it’s written specifically. And then when they have to give us access to the property, I don’t want to say it saved us one time. But there was this guy who was just really like one of those guys where you’re like, Okay, he’s trying something like, even on the inspection were like, I feel like you’re trying something like when somebody question is, hey, what kind of insurance you got, buddy? You know, it’s never really a great situation. But he did a remodel, and he’s like, Hey, during the remodel, we found this, this and this, we want you to pay for it. It was like six months later. I’m like, I feel like your remodel bill is due and you want us to I don’t think that existed. And then we showed him that clause and he kind of got a little Tiffy and never heard from them. Again, that was like eight years ago. But that’s a good clause to have. Because that, like covers the covers that aspect of things.
Isaac P: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we, I just talked to her home inspector, who, you know, the client is complaining about something, but they won’t, they won’t have him out to see it. And he has one of these clauses in this agreement. And I was, you know, I was telling him, hey, look, you know, the, you should definitely point this out to them, right, that they need to provide you access contractually. Because sometimes clients are just kind of put me in touch with your insurance so they can pay me
Ian R: like a piggy bank, just smash that thing open.
Isaac P: Another thing that we like to see is having a confidentiality and exclusivity clause, not only in the agreement but in the report itself. Um, so, you know, obviously, a short clause in your agreement that says, Look, this, this report is pretty much confidential between us and it’s prepared specifically for you, you don’t have the right to, to share it around. But also something in your actual report that says, Look, this report was prepared exclusively for, you know, Bob Brown, and it’s not to be relied on by anybody else. Having that in both your agreement and your report is going to help you. If you know, let’s say the deal falls through the seller got a copy of your report. And then they want to go sharing that report with any other potential buyers who may try to rely on your report and then come back and sue you, even though they never paid you a dime, you know, they’re not your client, and you’ve never worked for them. And in that scenario, having something in your report that says, Look, this isn’t for you, if you’re not Bob Brown, you know, this person prepared exclusively for the name of the client, and not to be relied upon by anybody else.
Ian R: And it’s nice that you mentioned that too because that’s actually a hot topic in the industry. Right now, I have something similar, because I was actually kind of like when a bunch of people sees my reports because it’s kind of like free advertising to me. But at the same time, I also don’t want somebody to buy a house and then call me and ask me a bunch of questions about it and say, Hey, what about this roof or this or that, you can write it up really nicely what you just described, you can say, hey, don’t rely on this report, it wasn’t written for you. If you would like a re-inspection of the home, here’s my phone number. Here’s our website, give us a call, we’ll do a full re-inspection for a full fee. And there are a lot of nice ways to write that up. But that’s great that you mentioned that because a lot of home inspectors, that’s a hot topic that if you don’t follow any of the Facebook forums, that’s always going back and forth. Yeah, it’s
Isaac P: it’s an easy one, right? You just add a little something to your agreement and then add something to your report. That’s, again, as conspicuous in the report. And then you’ve got a better defense against, you know, some random person relying on your inspection agreement and trying to make you liable for it.
Ian R: Great point. Well, Isaac, we know that you’re a busy guy. And we really appreciate you being on the show today. Your wealth of knowledge and anybody listening. Take Isaac up on his offer. Check out working Ari, I tell you what, it’s a great magazine, both online and in print, depending on your media preferences. But, Isaac, thank you so much for being on the show.
Isaac P: Yeah, thanks. Thanks a lot for having me, man. I really appreciate it.
Ian R: Yeah, we’ll have to have you back again.
Isaac P: Alright. Talk to you later.
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